Where do I send a oil filter to be tested to see if it is defective? And after the testing is completed will the oil filter manufacturer stand behind the results of the test if it is a good oil filter or bad. Will the oil filter manufacturer say that since the filter has been tested(touched)that it could have been altered at the testing facility and wont stand behind its own warranty. Costs?? Thank you.
Where to send defective oil filter for testing?
- Thread starter Tommycat565
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Why not ask the oil filter manufacturer about this? I suspect if it's defective they'll just give you a new one.
Whatever you do, DON'T SEND THE FILTER TO THE FILTER MANUFACTURER, unless you see a lawyer first.
My nephew (dummy that he is) had a Ford Escort, that had FRAM Filter (another word for JUNK). The filter blew and ruined his engine. Called Fram and they told him to send them the filter for them to look over. LIKE A DUMMY, HE DID. Well what do you know, Fram came back and said that there was nothing wrong with the filter. In addition, they kept the filter.
Did I mention that my nephew is a DUMMY?
My nephew (dummy that he is) had a Ford Escort, that had FRAM Filter (another word for JUNK). The filter blew and ruined his engine. Called Fram and they told him to send them the filter for them to look over. LIKE A DUMMY, HE DID. Well what do you know, Fram came back and said that there was nothing wrong with the filter. In addition, they kept the filter.
Did I mention that my nephew is a DUMMY?
Only the filters maker has any authority to classify a filter "defective".Example:Send a Fram filter to WIX and watch them call it 100% bad.But you think Fram would accept that? Of course you run the risk of a maker stonewalling on it being bad when its a conflict of interest. Their liability is probably limited to the replacement of the filter itself,you will spend more on shipping costs than what a new filter would cost.
Kestas
Staff member
Are you having a problem with the filter? What makes you suspect it is defective?
In addition to my above post, I once was reading the manual (book) given by AmsOil to their dealers. The manual does say that AmsOil will guarantee their oil filters, however in the fine print, in the back of the book, it also said that the dealer must return the bad filter to AmsOil. (gotcha!),
I told that dealer that the warranty was not worth the paper it was printed on, if you first have to return the filter to the manufacturer.
If your filter ruined your engine, SEE A LAWYER FIRST.
I told that dealer that the warranty was not worth the paper it was printed on, if you first have to return the filter to the manufacturer.
If your filter ruined your engine, SEE A LAWYER FIRST.
Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
In addition to my above post, I once was reading the manual (book) given by AmsOil to their dealers. The manual does say that AmsOil will guarantee their oil filters, however in the fine print, in the back of the book, it also said that the dealer must return the bad filter to AmsOil. (gotcha!),
I told that dealer that the warranty was not worth the paper it was printed on, if you first have to return the filter to the manufacturer.
If your filter ruined your engine, SEE A LAWYER FIRST.
Hate to break it to you, but unless you got deep pockets and can do a "CSI" chain of custody trail on any filter you remove, any independent testing of a suspect filter outside the filter maker is going to be a long drawn out legal process.
All a filter maker is going to do if you refuse to return a filter to them for testing is stonewall you on the issue if the filter you have in hand actually came off the vehicle in question.
While it is nice to error on the side of paranoia and not trust a filter maker, they are actually the best to deal with a claim and the vast majority of the time they will make good.
The rub is that many things on the vehicle can and will cause a filter to fail external of the filter actually being bad. People do not like hear that but that is the sad fact most of the times when a damage filter is sent in and through through analysis, external factors like defective mechanical bypass and other issues related to the engine caused the filter to fail.
So why it is easy to call your nephew a [censored], he did the right thing to begin with and sent it in. No reasonable civil jury is gonna award anybody anything if the filter maker can not have access to the unmolested filter for analysis.
In addition to my above post, I once was reading the manual (book) given by AmsOil to their dealers. The manual does say that AmsOil will guarantee their oil filters, however in the fine print, in the back of the book, it also said that the dealer must return the bad filter to AmsOil. (gotcha!),
I told that dealer that the warranty was not worth the paper it was printed on, if you first have to return the filter to the manufacturer.
If your filter ruined your engine, SEE A LAWYER FIRST.
Hate to break it to you, but unless you got deep pockets and can do a "CSI" chain of custody trail on any filter you remove, any independent testing of a suspect filter outside the filter maker is going to be a long drawn out legal process.
All a filter maker is going to do if you refuse to return a filter to them for testing is stonewall you on the issue if the filter you have in hand actually came off the vehicle in question.
While it is nice to error on the side of paranoia and not trust a filter maker, they are actually the best to deal with a claim and the vast majority of the time they will make good.
The rub is that many things on the vehicle can and will cause a filter to fail external of the filter actually being bad. People do not like hear that but that is the sad fact most of the times when a damage filter is sent in and through through analysis, external factors like defective mechanical bypass and other issues related to the engine caused the filter to fail.
So why it is easy to call your nephew a [censored], he did the right thing to begin with and sent it in. No reasonable civil jury is gonna award anybody anything if the filter maker can not have access to the unmolested filter for analysis.
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A buddy here at work had an e-core grenade his wife's Suzuki engine. He documented/photographed it well and sent it to Champ Labs at their request. He was expecting trouble but didn't get it, Champ Labs told him it was a defective filter and bought him a new engine without issue.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
While it is nice to error on the side of paranoia and not trust a filter maker, they are actually the best to deal with a claim and the vast majority of the time they will make good.
Unfortunately, there are few alternatives, as you point out. For one, it's not like there are organizations to test filters like there are for oil with the API and PQIA. Secondly, the filter is one component. If an engine fails, you can take any reasonable amount of oil samples and send them to all kinds of labs. The filter can only go to one place at one time.
While it is nice to error on the side of paranoia and not trust a filter maker, they are actually the best to deal with a claim and the vast majority of the time they will make good.
Unfortunately, there are few alternatives, as you point out. For one, it's not like there are organizations to test filters like there are for oil with the API and PQIA. Secondly, the filter is one component. If an engine fails, you can take any reasonable amount of oil samples and send them to all kinds of labs. The filter can only go to one place at one time.
The problem is that most people do not know how to properly start the process of claim with a filter maker and the procedures involved. Most filter makers have recovery kits and/or specific instructions on sending in suspect filters for analysis.
People can not make legal claims against the manufacturer for warranty restitution if you do not give them the suspect product back unmolested for analysis.
All the big name filter makers have a good track record of making right if the product is actually defective.
People can not make legal claims against the manufacturer for warranty restitution if you do not give them the suspect product back unmolested for analysis.
All the big name filter makers have a good track record of making right if the product is actually defective.
You are spot on, Hootbro.
The problem comes down to human nature. When faced with an expensive problem they "feel" (quotes are there for a reason) was caused by Filter X, they are not going to be swayed by truth or logic. The filter people are the best ones to discover the truth if you are trying to figure out the chicken and egg scenario and you need to know a LOT more than the average shade tree mechanic and the average mechanic (who may have a CYA of his own when he "blames" the oil filter) to do so. I recently saw how Fram warranty filters are tested to determine if they were the cause of engine failure or merely the the egg laid by something else. It's quite an extensive process that they take seriously. Like Champ Labs. Why should they eat an engine if something besides the filter caused it and they can prove it? I think if you ask for a warranty filter back after a claim they will send it back.
A lawyer will cost more than the engine, and you'll be paying him by the hour from day one, as will the independent testing needed to show the filter was at fault. All that has to be done FIRST... and what if the tests showed the filter wasn't at fault? Call SWRI and ask how much it would cost to do that? Again, likely as much as the engine cost.
The world isn't perfect. To some degree you just have to trust in the integrity of a the company and hope it goes your way. I imagine there are cases where it went the wrong way.
The problem comes down to human nature. When faced with an expensive problem they "feel" (quotes are there for a reason) was caused by Filter X, they are not going to be swayed by truth or logic. The filter people are the best ones to discover the truth if you are trying to figure out the chicken and egg scenario and you need to know a LOT more than the average shade tree mechanic and the average mechanic (who may have a CYA of his own when he "blames" the oil filter) to do so. I recently saw how Fram warranty filters are tested to determine if they were the cause of engine failure or merely the the egg laid by something else. It's quite an extensive process that they take seriously. Like Champ Labs. Why should they eat an engine if something besides the filter caused it and they can prove it? I think if you ask for a warranty filter back after a claim they will send it back.
A lawyer will cost more than the engine, and you'll be paying him by the hour from day one, as will the independent testing needed to show the filter was at fault. All that has to be done FIRST... and what if the tests showed the filter wasn't at fault? Call SWRI and ask how much it would cost to do that? Again, likely as much as the engine cost.
The world isn't perfect. To some degree you just have to trust in the integrity of a the company and hope it goes your way. I imagine there are cases where it went the wrong way.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A buddy here at work had an e-core grenade his wife's Suzuki engine. He documented/photographed it well and sent it to Champ Labs at their request. He was expecting trouble but didn't get it, Champ Labs told him it was a defective filter and bought him a new engine without issue.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
I am curious - was this a late model XL7 with the GM high feature LY7 3.6L V6? I have a theory that the filter spins or turns in this engine, and the plastic core can't take it.
A buddy here at work had an e-core grenade his wife's Suzuki engine. He documented/photographed it well and sent it to Champ Labs at their request. He was expecting trouble but didn't get it, Champ Labs told him it was a defective filter and bought him a new engine without issue.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
I am curious - was this a late model XL7 with the GM high feature LY7 3.6L V6? I have a theory that the filter spins or turns in this engine, and the plastic core can't take it.
Originally Posted By: ctrcbob
In addition to my above post, I once was reading the manual (book) given by AmsOil to their dealers. The manual does say that AmsOil will guarantee their oil filters, however in the fine print, in the back of the book, it also said that the dealer must return the bad filter to AmsOil. (gotcha!),
I told that dealer that the warranty was not worth the paper it was printed on, if you first have to return the filter to the manufacturer.
If your filter ruined your engine, SEE A LAWYER FIRST.
??? So easy to say Amsoil would weasel in such a case. But you have no proof. In fact the few times Amsoil has had filter issues all I've ever seen is Amsoil do the RIGHT thing contrary to your opinion.
In addition to my above post, I once was reading the manual (book) given by AmsOil to their dealers. The manual does say that AmsOil will guarantee their oil filters, however in the fine print, in the back of the book, it also said that the dealer must return the bad filter to AmsOil. (gotcha!),
I told that dealer that the warranty was not worth the paper it was printed on, if you first have to return the filter to the manufacturer.
If your filter ruined your engine, SEE A LAWYER FIRST.
??? So easy to say Amsoil would weasel in such a case. But you have no proof. In fact the few times Amsoil has had filter issues all I've ever seen is Amsoil do the RIGHT thing contrary to your opinion.
Originally Posted By: gotib007
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A buddy here at work had an e-core grenade his wife's Suzuki engine. He documented/photographed it well and sent it to Champ Labs at their request. He was expecting trouble but didn't get it, Champ Labs told him it was a defective filter and bought him a new engine without issue.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
I am curious - was this a late model XL7 with the GM high feature LY7 3.6L V6? I have a theory that the filter spins or turns in this engine, and the plastic core can't take it.
Yes, indeed it was. Sounds like you are hot on the trail of something. The filter was a quick lube place store branded e-core (Firestone maybe?) but Champ Labs made it and they stood behind it. He had run it far longer than I would run an e-core but he was following the OLM for the vehicle so he hadn't done anything wrong. I think it had about 7,000 on it when it disintegrated but I'm not positive on that.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A buddy here at work had an e-core grenade his wife's Suzuki engine. He documented/photographed it well and sent it to Champ Labs at their request. He was expecting trouble but didn't get it, Champ Labs told him it was a defective filter and bought him a new engine without issue.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
I am curious - was this a late model XL7 with the GM high feature LY7 3.6L V6? I have a theory that the filter spins or turns in this engine, and the plastic core can't take it.
Yes, indeed it was. Sounds like you are hot on the trail of something. The filter was a quick lube place store branded e-core (Firestone maybe?) but Champ Labs made it and they stood behind it. He had run it far longer than I would run an e-core but he was following the OLM for the vehicle so he hadn't done anything wrong. I think it had about 7,000 on it when it disintegrated but I'm not positive on that.
Kc Could you please elaborate about the filter disintergrating at 7000 mi. I change the filter in our work van with Acdelco Ecore filters and I generally go about 7k miles. Did the cage crumble??
Sorry, it wasn't my vehicle and I'm fortunate to have the details that I do. I do know that filter element got into the engine in a big enough way to ruin it.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: gotib007
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A buddy here at work had an e-core grenade his wife's Suzuki engine. He documented/photographed it well and sent it to Champ Labs at their request. He was expecting trouble but didn't get it, Champ Labs told him it was a defective filter and bought him a new engine without issue.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
I am curious - was this a late model XL7 with the GM high feature LY7 3.6L V6? I have a theory that the filter spins or turns in this engine, and the plastic core can't take it.
Yes, indeed it was. Sounds like you are hot on the trail of something.
Thanks. For those reading this thread that have an LY7, next time you change your oil, see if there is a mark on the filter base that contacts the oil drain valve on the inside of the housing. On mine, the mark goes all the way around the base of the filter, as if it spins.
Originally Posted By: gotib007
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A buddy here at work had an e-core grenade his wife's Suzuki engine. He documented/photographed it well and sent it to Champ Labs at their request. He was expecting trouble but didn't get it, Champ Labs told him it was a defective filter and bought him a new engine without issue.
Now that is the way to do business! Kudo's to them.
I am curious - was this a late model XL7 with the GM high feature LY7 3.6L V6? I have a theory that the filter spins or turns in this engine, and the plastic core can't take it.
Yes, indeed it was. Sounds like you are hot on the trail of something.
Thanks. For those reading this thread that have an LY7, next time you change your oil, see if there is a mark on the filter base that contacts the oil drain valve on the inside of the housing. On mine, the mark goes all the way around the base of the filter, as if it spins.
I had a K&N fail on me
Champ Labs sent the postage, and granted me a new one
Post: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2643813
Champ Labs sent the postage, and granted me a new one
Post: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2643813
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