Wheel bearings. -- ratings.

[MaximaGuy]

I want to replace my front bearings and wanted to get the forum to pitch in their likes..

These are the choises I have, SKF ($70), Timken ($35), OEM ($95).

How would you rate each one?

 

[Quest]

If OEM are NTN (Japan), I wouldn't mind paying that price. Ditto with SKF so long as they are from Germany, US, Japan.

I would seriously hate to pay that kind of price if the bearings are from Mexico, Brazil or China (even India).

 

[rpn453]

I would also base my decision on where they're made. Timken and SKF are both capable of making quality bearings.

 

[Kestas]

I work for SKF. Wheel bearings are half our business at our facility. Presently, many OEM wheel bearings are made from Indian steel, forged in Mexico, then machined and assembled in the US. These bearings are labeled "Made in USA".

So tell me, are these bearings Indian, Mexican, or American?... or maybe they're Swedish, because our company is Swedish-owned! Our other products have a similar pedigree.

This is not a slam on my company, because our competitors are also doing the same thing with outsourcing. SKF has a good name in bearings. Nobody can tell you where a bearing is made anymore. The "Made in..." label is meaningless nowadays. It's a good bet that even "Made in Japan" bearings are made with Korean steel.

Aftermarket has is considerably worse quality, unless you're buying OEM. I don't think SKF makes aftermarket wheel bearing hub units.

You may as well go with price.

Why are you replacing both bearings? They typically aren't replaced in pairs as you would brakes and shocks. You only replace the one that's bad. Our warranty group doesn't allow replacement of both bearings if only one is bad.

BTW, what's the application?

 

[alreadygone]

Kestas,

Aren't these type quality questions why we now see "ISO 9,000" and such on better quality parts, no matter where made?

With quality that high in both aftermarket prods, be daamed if I'd pay more for oe. I'd think I was doing customer disservice to spend more of his money than necessary.

Also, I'm betting both aftermarkets have lifetime warranty. Lucky if OE is 90 days.

Bob

Bob

 

[mechtech2]

If the mileage is high, I'd replace them both if you are keeping the car long term.
Sure, you don't have to , and you may get many more miles only doing one.
In 6 months or longer I doubt you will regret doing both.

I also would go with price, as Timken is a brand name.

 

[Kestas]

ISO 9000... QS 9000... TS 16949... are all called "quality systems". In practise they don't assure quality. All it means in the big picture is that the quality is well-documented, whether it's bad or good. It also does a pretty good job of strangling a company's operation. Quality doesn't come from a structured mandate from somebody, it comes from a personal level of expertise, logical thinking, and good ethical behavior.

I'm still trying to figure out how the manufacturing industry got caught up with these equality requirements, which were essentially bred by the auto manufacturers -- who ironically don't follow the quality systems... they don't have to! Kinda like asking the king to follow the rules he decreed.

Remember that the infamous Firestone tires put on the Ford Explorer were manufactured under one of these quality systems.

I'm guessing the quality systems arose during the good times automakers had in the early 90s. There really wasn't a lot going on with innovation. Still isn't... cars are pretty much the same they've been for the past 20 years or so. So bored VPs thought this would provide the "progess" that's needed for the automotive industry, and whip the suppliers into shape to reduce the number of defects on what are now overly complex vehicles.

I predict you'll find the so-called quality systems fade away once our country finds itself in another national emergency, as we were in World War II. Passing a quality audit won't seem as important as moving forward with technology, innovation, and "getting things done" in face of a crisis.

 

[Audi Junkie]

What about industrial-spec bearings? Aren't there heavy-duty bearings that could be sourced in the standard size?

 

[AcuraTech]

Can't say OEM bearings are any better. Seems that I replace OEM bearings that are starting to growl once a week in our shop. Why? I don't know. One time a customer asked me why the wheel bearings on his two year old TL were bad, when the bearings on his 78 Chevelle were still good. I didn't have an answer. Bad metallurgy? Who knows. Certain cars just seem to have the same problems.

Engineering is tricky. Small seemingly incongruous things can lead to big problems. OEM doesn't necessarily mean better. Usually it does, but not always. Especially with todays world economy. Like it was said, made in USA means made in USA with Korean steel by a Japanese company. Who knows.

 

[Shannow]

alreadygone,
Kestas' comments on quality systems are spot on.

the various ISO 900x are for design, and manufacture.

I've been involved in "quality" system design, and to be quite honest, I could write a standard that stated
1.1 walk around back yard and survey dog faeces
1.2 review document obtained in 1.1. Identify those that are less than 24 hours old.
1.3 collect faeces less than 24 hours old
1.4 package collected faeces in box, part number 12345
1.5 sign off checksheet, and obtain supervisor's signature.

I would fully be complying to a quality system.

If I had another step that stated "design to be in accordance to AS 4041", it would be referring the system back to an applicable (in this case Australian) Standard, upon which the design would be independently verified.

 

[Kestas]

AJ, I've never heard of industrial-spec bearings. In this business, if you want your bearing to be tougher, higher capacity, or have a higher design life, you generally go with a larger size or a different style of bearing, e.g., going from ball rollers to cylindrical rollers.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Thanks. Mori scoured up some conjecture on this, I have to review it.

afaik, proper seating of the replacement bearing is a required element of installation. Simply mauling the new one into a seat that has some imperfections can introduce play into the races. I'm no expert. I supposing a soft mold or sabot that applies force evenly on the bearing face as it's pressed will help. Did I mention that I'm no expert?

I'm pretty sure that hard driving on rough roads and oversize rims reduces the bearing life. I crawl over rough roads. Driveway transitions > 1/2 inch is a pet peeve of mine.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Quest
If OEM are NTN (Japan), I wouldn't mind paying that price. Ditto with SKF so long as they are from Germany, US, Japan.

I would seriously hate to pay that kind of price if the bearings are from Mexico, Brazil or China (even India).

ditto.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
alreadygone,
Kestas' comments on quality systems are spot on.

the various ISO 900x are for design, and manufacture.

I've been involved in "quality" system design, and to be quite honest, I could write a standard that stated
1.1 walk around back yard and survey dog faeces
1.2 review document obtained in 1.1. Identify those that are less than 24 hours old.
1.3 collect faeces less than 24 hours old
1.4 package collected faeces in box, part number 12345
1.5 sign off checksheet, and obtain supervisor's signature.

I would fully be complying to a quality system.

If I had another step that stated "design to be in accordance to AS 4041", it would be referring the system back to an applicable (in this case Australian) Standard, upon which the design would be independently verified.


Shannow, I was going to do a dog turd analogy. Fortunately I waited until I had read the entire thread.

Great minds think alike

 

[Shannow]

People who have worked under "quality systems" tend to think alike...

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
People who have worked under "quality systems" tend to think alike...


Shortly before I retired a bit over 10 years ago our company was going for ISO 900X certification. I attended some of the brainwashing^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H training sessions.

Fortunately I retired before we had to implement it.

I could see some value in it if it were used intelligently, but systems like that usually aren't. There is too much opportunity for it to turn into mind numbing bureaucracy run by petty people on a power trip.

 

[Shannow]

I had to write some of the Q.A. procedures.

So I started interviewing people on what they actually did. Wrote procedures that people would follow (intuitively) even if they didn't know the procedure...left out acres of rubbish (like ordering financial statements of subcontractors to our main contractors)...audit trail looked great.

They were all scrapped. Manual was too thin.

 

[sprintman]

Reality check. Western society has a a superiority cmoplex that that just doesn't apply in the current world. We can't get our head around the fact Taiwan, India, South Korea et al can make equal, or better product than white western countries. It's racism at it it's purist. Our new vacuum sealer German/Korean design, Korean manufacture is such high quality it freaks us and our visitors out. Move on

 

[Shannow]

sprintman, Korea is producing much these days, and there is often great quality.

However things such as copyright and patents don't seem to factor greatly in their business model. They get contracted to build something by a company (oft the company has to build it there to secure the order), and they go an producing it as 'though they designed it in the first place.

They can copy, to a very high detail, but I've not seen a great problem solving capability...other than "It's not our problem", or "Flog it up, it's going to seal some time".

 

[Tempest]

I have also been through an ISO 9000 intigration. Had no affect on anything except to add paper work. It simply is there to state that you are producing what you say you are producing. If you produce low quality parts, and you say that you do, then you can be ISO qualified.