I have a black motorcycle that requires constant polishing to remove micro scratches. It seems like if ANYTHING touches this paint it leaves a mark. I use McGuiar's Ultimate Compound which does a good job removing blemishes without having to use any other finishing products. Problem is, when using it by hand, it can and usually does take several applications, which takes time and a lot of elbow grease. Is there an decent orbital buffer (or something similar) available that isn't real expensive and won't damage the paint? Something for around $30-$40 would be nice.
What's a good buffer/polisher?
- Thread starter grampi
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Grampi,
I wouldn't be using Meguires Ultimate Compound so regularly, as it is pretty strong stuff. It and the Meguires swirlX are a new generation of "constant cut" compounds based on using ultra-fine and very hard abrasives that do not "diminish" like normal polishing compounds do.
As such they have the ability to remove alot of paint while having smaller average particle size (which is how they can finish so nice). Imagine a normal polish compound going from say size 20 to size 8 particles, vs the Meg's UC being a constant size 12-10.
But it can be deceptive since normally such a nice finish is associated with a very fine/soft compound that is not removing very much paint. While the UC is quite strong, it is not as fine as a true finishing compound. Thus its taking so many applications to get a fine surface.
IMHO if you like the Ultimate Compound'ss action, I would be using Meguires SwirlX which is designed for micro-scratches.
Although for my money, I would use KIT Scratch Out for this purpose, since its so fine/soft and cheap ($5.5/14oz vs $10/16oz for Meg's swirlX).
You might also want to try some Eagle 1 Nanowax (which is good at filling in micro defects) or Turtle Wax's new Black Box, which is a kit containing a black polishing compound and black tinted carnauba wax.
I wouldn't be using Meguires Ultimate Compound so regularly, as it is pretty strong stuff. It and the Meguires swirlX are a new generation of "constant cut" compounds based on using ultra-fine and very hard abrasives that do not "diminish" like normal polishing compounds do.
As such they have the ability to remove alot of paint while having smaller average particle size (which is how they can finish so nice). Imagine a normal polish compound going from say size 20 to size 8 particles, vs the Meg's UC being a constant size 12-10.
But it can be deceptive since normally such a nice finish is associated with a very fine/soft compound that is not removing very much paint. While the UC is quite strong, it is not as fine as a true finishing compound. Thus its taking so many applications to get a fine surface.
IMHO if you like the Ultimate Compound'ss action, I would be using Meguires SwirlX which is designed for micro-scratches.
Although for my money, I would use KIT Scratch Out for this purpose, since its so fine/soft and cheap ($5.5/14oz vs $10/16oz for Meg's swirlX).
You might also want to try some Eagle 1 Nanowax (which is good at filling in micro defects) or Turtle Wax's new Black Box, which is a kit containing a black polishing compound and black tinted carnauba wax.
$30-40 will only buy a toy. You will need to get into the $250+ range for a decent starter polisher, smaller backing plate, 4" pads, and professional polishes. I agree to lay off the Ultimate compound. Look into Poorboy's Black Hole. It is a filler glaze for dark colors and works exceptionally well.
PorterCable
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Look into Poorboy's Black Hole.
Waiting for Mori's response.....
Look into Poorboy's Black Hole.
Waiting for Mori's response.....
Porter Cable. You're looking at $200+
$40 won't get you anything decent. You're only kidding yourself if you think you're getting something decent for $40.
$40 won't get you anything decent. You're only kidding yourself if you think you're getting something decent for $40.
$40 will get you a dual action "buffer" machine which is good for spreading product around, but lacks the force to really work the product into the paint. But it will get the full measure of performance from cleaner-type waxes.
The main supplies you'll need are MF/sponge bonnets to wrap around the built in backing pad.
~$130+ will get you "real" dual action polisher which has plenty of power to work in polishing/rubbing compounds.
However this level of power can damage paint if not used wisely. Folks on Autopia like to taunt folks who've just burned up their paint with a DA polisher by carefully explaining to them how this is impossible.
These things are big machines and are probably not suitable for polishing a motorcycle.
~$225+ Will get you a rotary type machine, which has the most power to make quick work of any compounding job. The downside is that there is very little room for error.
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IMHO I would first be using the right chemicals for the job and only then be looking for more power.
The main supplies you'll need are MF/sponge bonnets to wrap around the built in backing pad.
~$130+ will get you "real" dual action polisher which has plenty of power to work in polishing/rubbing compounds.
However this level of power can damage paint if not used wisely. Folks on Autopia like to taunt folks who've just burned up their paint with a DA polisher by carefully explaining to them how this is impossible.
These things are big machines and are probably not suitable for polishing a motorcycle.
~$225+ Will get you a rotary type machine, which has the most power to make quick work of any compounding job. The downside is that there is very little room for error.
-----
IMHO I would first be using the right chemicals for the job and only then be looking for more power.
$30-40 is only going to get you a cheap orbital. Most orbitals will use 6-10 inch bonnets. The size of the orbital will be too big for most tight spots on your bike.
And from my experience MF or cotton bonnets don't work well with UC... they tend to gum up quickly. Just stick with a good foam pad and use good technique.
Could also try something like this. http://www.autogeek.net/griots-orbital-polisher.html
And from my experience MF or cotton bonnets don't work well with UC... they tend to gum up quickly. Just stick with a good foam pad and use good technique.
Could also try something like this. http://www.autogeek.net/griots-orbital-polisher.html
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Does it work good for your application and are you satified with the results you get using it?
I've actually worked my way up to the Ultimate Compound. I started with Swirl-X, and then tried Scratch-X, and when they did nothing I moved up to UC. Maybe it's just because I'm using the stuff by hand, but even the UC seems to be having a very difficult time removing what looks to be very minor spider web scratches in the clearcoat. Originally I thought just a few applications of even the mildest product would remove these things, but they're proving to be very stubborn. I've also noticed it doesn't seem to take much (wind blowing dust across my paint) to leave marks in this black paint. I don't know where they're coming from. I use nothing but clean micro fiber cloths for both washing and polishing. I don't get it. Where am I going wrong here?
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Originally Posted By: jcwit
Does it work good for your application and are you satified with the results you get using it?
Yes, I ordered some foam 8.5'' pads (mine came with a wool pad only) to use on it's backing plate. With the proper speed and product I get good fast results on my black car. I generally clay, polish and then wax the car within a few hours.
Does it work good for your application and are you satified with the results you get using it?
Yes, I ordered some foam 8.5'' pads (mine came with a wool pad only) to use on it's backing plate. With the proper speed and product I get good fast results on my black car. I generally clay, polish and then wax the car within a few hours.
Very good, you made a point I was after in that not everyone needs or has the resources for a $250 "TOY". I find in todays world it seems that to some people only the costly products are those that work well and/or hold up. Valvue, as in cost savings seems to go by the wayside.
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Does it work good for your application and are you satified with the results you get using it?
Yes, I ordered some foam 8.5'' pads (mine came with a wool pad only) to use on it's backing plate. With the proper speed and product I get good fast results on my black car. I generally clay, polish and then wax the car within a few hours.
What brand is it and where did you buy it?
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Does it work good for your application and are you satified with the results you get using it?
Yes, I ordered some foam 8.5'' pads (mine came with a wool pad only) to use on it's backing plate. With the proper speed and product I get good fast results on my black car. I generally clay, polish and then wax the car within a few hours.
What brand is it and where did you buy it?
8.5" pads??????? I've detailed professionally for a number of years and have never seen nor heard of a pad that size. Is this a typo and you meant 6.5" pads? Even with a Porter Cable the 6.5" pads are the least effective........8.5? This can't be right. An 8.5" pad wouldn't even work properly on a rotary buffer. Measure them again please.
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Originally Posted By: jcwit
Very good, you made a point I was after in that not everyone needs or has the resources for a $250 "TOY". I find in todays world it seems that to some people only the costly products are those that work well and/or hold up. Valvue, as in cost savings seems to go by the wayside.
At one time I thought I "needed" a polishing machine, untill I thought further about it and realised.
1. You will basicly be using it to apply polishing compound to the car, which is not something you should be doing very often. So if you averaged out the cost of a polishing kit at ~$200 by 2-3 legitamate uses, it's quite an expensive and specialised tool.
2. Turtle Wax Ice is so easy to use, that having a machine wouldn't make working with it any faster.
Very good, you made a point I was after in that not everyone needs or has the resources for a $250 "TOY". I find in todays world it seems that to some people only the costly products are those that work well and/or hold up. Valvue, as in cost savings seems to go by the wayside.
At one time I thought I "needed" a polishing machine, untill I thought further about it and realised.
1. You will basicly be using it to apply polishing compound to the car, which is not something you should be doing very often. So if you averaged out the cost of a polishing kit at ~$200 by 2-3 legitamate uses, it's quite an expensive and specialised tool.
2. Turtle Wax Ice is so easy to use, that having a machine wouldn't make working with it any faster.
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Originally Posted By: RTexasF
8.5" pads??????? I've detailed professionally for a number of years and have never seen nor heard of a pad that size. Is this a typo and you meant 6.5" pads? Even with a Porter Cable the 6.5" pads are the least effective........8.5? This can't be right. An 8.5" pad wouldn't even work properly on a rotary buffer. Measure them again please.
FYI - - I have some 8" and 9" pads for rotaries, both foam and wool. Large pads are great for covering lots of surface area, like polishing an RV or big truck.
8.5" pads??????? I've detailed professionally for a number of years and have never seen nor heard of a pad that size. Is this a typo and you meant 6.5" pads? Even with a Porter Cable the 6.5" pads are the least effective........8.5? This can't be right. An 8.5" pad wouldn't even work properly on a rotary buffer. Measure them again please.
FYI - - I have some 8" and 9" pads for rotaries, both foam and wool. Large pads are great for covering lots of surface area, like polishing an RV or big truck.
Back in the day, I used a Porter Cable 7424 orbital polisher. It's OK. The beauty of it is that you'd be very hard pressed to damage your paint without trying really hard to do so. It's fairly idiot proof. The downside is that it can take forever and a day to do any real paint correction. I've since settled on the Flex XC3401. It is a much more capable tool (and about double the price). You get a lot of the benefits of the PC, but it works a lot faster. The downside is that you CAN burn your paint if your not careful. It's more forgiving than a straight rotary buffer, though, and avoids the hologram effect that often accompanies those.
I bought mine here:
http://www.detailersdomain.com/flextoolxc3401vrorbitalpolisher.aspx
I bought mine here:
http://www.detailersdomain.com/flextoolxc3401vrorbitalpolisher.aspx
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Does it work good for your application and are you satified with the results you get using it?
Yes, I ordered some foam 8.5'' pads (mine came with a wool pad only) to use on it's backing plate. With the proper speed and product I get good fast results on my black car. I generally clay, polish and then wax the car within a few hours.
What brand is it and where did you buy it?
I bought it on ebay, I don't recall the brand (nothing fancy). Several months later I saw the same unit at Pepboys for about the same price I paid.
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
8.5" pads??????? I've detailed professionally for a number of years and have never seen nor heard of a pad that size. Is this a typo and you meant 6.5" pads? Even with a Porter Cable the 6.5" pads are the least effective........8.5? This can't be right. An 8.5" pad wouldn't even work properly on a rotary buffer. Measure them again please.
I just looked up my receipt from the last time I ordered foam pads, they are indeed 8.5'' pads.
My unit came with a 7" backing plate, handles and spare motor brushes, it variable speed 0-3000 IIRC. I only use it about 2-3 times a year.
I used to use an orbital for the light stuff. Since I bought the rotary I haven't used the orbital...I just loan it out.
Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Does it work good for your application and are you satified with the results you get using it?
Yes, I ordered some foam 8.5'' pads (mine came with a wool pad only) to use on it's backing plate. With the proper speed and product I get good fast results on my black car. I generally clay, polish and then wax the car within a few hours.
What brand is it and where did you buy it?
I bought it on ebay, I don't recall the brand (nothing fancy). Several months later I saw the same unit at Pepboys for about the same price I paid.
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
8.5" pads??????? I've detailed professionally for a number of years and have never seen nor heard of a pad that size. Is this a typo and you meant 6.5" pads? Even with a Porter Cable the 6.5" pads are the least effective........8.5? This can't be right. An 8.5" pad wouldn't even work properly on a rotary buffer. Measure them again please.
I just looked up my receipt from the last time I ordered foam pads, they are indeed 8.5'' pads.
My unit came with a 7" backing plate, handles and spare motor brushes, it variable speed 0-3000 IIRC. I only use it about 2-3 times a year.
I used to use an orbital for the light stuff. Since I bought the rotary I haven't used the orbital...I just loan it out.
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