What temp does oil need to reach / maintain ?

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Originally Posted By: Rand
do you have an oil temp gauge?

oil temp is not coolant temp.


for that matter bulk oil pan temps are different vs the oil temp while its lubricating the engine.

my 2015 forester usually has the oil temp at 205-218f
but where that's measured... not sure.

it has never gone below 210 while running/moving after its fully warm. I did see 207 after 4min at a long light.



Yes, I do have oil temp. It usually is in the 190's when warmed up.
 
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
What do you drive and what is your reason for the modification ?


This is an '11 Ram 5.7l Hemi. Most people run the Hemi engines with 180 thermostats. Many tuners show that they can increase power output with the lower operating temperatures with timing etc. It has modified tuning in the PCM.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Wildly platform specific. Some cars and trucks respond extremely well to a small recalibration of the fans and a lower temp stat. My car gets huge gains in timing which translates to better throttle response and great economy, too.

First, you do not need to get oil to 212 F to remove water. Evaporation is greatly accelerated even at 160 degrees or less. DURATION at temp is important, hence why short trips/colder climates require a hotter stat. Oil temps typically trend higher than water temp but take longer to get there, but if you have an oil cooler then they usually stay close.

I would bet that on the highway or even good urban traffic the oil exceeds 200 degrees...


Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you running a 180 in yours?
 
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
I'm also curious, your lower thermo doesn't keep your CPU on closed loop?

My understanding is about 180F is the temp suggested to remove moisture form your crankcase. My F-150 I have a oil temp and coolant temp gauge. Oil is much slower to come up to operating temp (my thermo is 192) than coolant. My coolant is the Prestone (I mix 60/40 distilled) yellow/green.

Temp for mine, depends upon conditions and outside ambient temps. 5-20 M1 90F highway for 25 or more miles and mine will sit around 198-205F but 60F it's more like mid 190's and cooler temps have a more pronounced affect pushing it more toward 192.


From everything that I've read, it does not cause a problem with keeping the engine in closed loop.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Your truck came with a 203* thermostat for a reason. Changing it to a 190* thermostat might do more harm than good. Why did you change the thermostat and the fan settings? Keep in mind winter is coming and with the modifications you made your could take even longer to come to optimal operating temps, or worse it may never come to optimal operating temps now.


I have seen no reports of any harm coming from the lowered thermostat settings. As I said, most people who have done any tuning or performance modifications to the Hemi engines are running 180 thermostats without any issues.

I ran this thermostat all of last winter, and it has not caused any problems with getting up to temperature. I have not been able to see any real difference in warm up time between the two thermostats.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I've contemplated adding a hotter thermostat on my truck, as it will only run at 190 or more if it is sunny outside (if it's 50 or less it seems to hang in the low 180's). Watching the SGII seems to indicate worse mpg's in the 180's, but perhaps that is my imagination. I think this year I will finally start blocking off the radiator for faster heating.

Dumb question, but where are you measuring oil temp? I'd think the oil is going to spike in temp anyplace outside of the sump, which is where it may have the max surface area and most likely to dry out (if it had water in it). Oil sitting in a pocket on the head is likely much hotter than in the sump; perhaps that doesn't matter, as the pump will draw from the cooler oil.


As far as I know, oil temp is taking from the the oil filter adapter area. I *think*. My oil temperature readings that I am seeing come from the VIC. Monitors coolant temp, oil temp, oil pressure, trans temp.
 
I have the OEM oil temp sender up next to the cam control solenoid and one on the oil filter adapter. The OEM sensor will heat up much faster than the filter adapter one. It will always read higher too when the car is running down the road. If I stop and allow the heat soak to equalize by long idling then the filter adapter sender will rise to nearly the same as the OEM sensor.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Wildly platform specific. Some cars and trucks respond extremely well to a small recalibration of the fans and a lower temp stat. My car gets huge gains in timing which translates to better throttle response and great economy, too.

First, you do not need to get oil to 212 F to remove water. Evaporation is greatly accelerated even at 160 degrees or less. DURATION at temp is important, hence why short trips/colder climates require a hotter stat. Oil temps typically trend higher than water temp but take longer to get there, but if you have an oil cooler then they usually stay close.

I would bet that on the highway or even good urban traffic the oil exceeds 200 degrees...


Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you running a 180 in yours?


I run a Moto Rad 176 year round. Mine will occasionally throw a code for slow warm up but the gains in response are well worth it!
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Wildly platform specific. Some cars and trucks respond extremely well to a small recalibration of the fans and a lower temp stat. My car gets huge gains in timing which translates to better throttle response and great economy, too.

First, you do not need to get oil to 212 F to remove water. Evaporation is greatly accelerated even at 160 degrees or less. DURATION at temp is important, hence why short trips/colder climates require a hotter stat. Oil temps typically trend higher than water temp but take longer to get there, but if you have an oil cooler then they usually stay close.

I would bet that on the highway or even good urban traffic the oil exceeds 200 degrees...


Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you running a 180 in yours?


I run a Moto Rad 176 year round. Mine will occasionally throw a code for slow warm up but the gains in response are well worth it!


And just to confirm, you don't have any problems with closed loop/open loop with your setup?

What would your opinion be as far as to the setting of my cooling fan? I don't have the different speed settings like the car does, so I have basically on and off. Do you think 199deg is a good choice? Or would you recommend something different with my 190 thermostat? Also, in case I forgot to mention. I no longer have the clutch fan installed. All cooling is handled by the single electric fan.
 
On my 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2L turbo the boost is limited until the oil temp hits 150F. The temp is even higher for the 2013s and up.
 
I don't know if it's similar in all cars, but in saabs coolant temps over 60C (140F) are considered "warm". That is when all temp dependant warmup enrichments stop. Of course the engine is in closed loop as soon as the o2 warms up, below a certain load.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny248

And just to confirm, you don't have any problems with closed loop/open loop with your setup?

What would your opinion be as far as to the setting of my cooling fan? I don't have the different speed settings like the car does, so I have basically on and off. Do you think 199deg is a good choice? Or would you recommend something different with my 190 thermostat? Also, in case I forgot to mention. I no longer have the clutch fan installed. All cooling is handled by the single electric fan.


Sorry I missed this.

My car has electric fans only. They are set at 185/195. I have a different platform than yours so my info may not apply to your calibrations. But no problems here ever, and I am at 100k miles and running extremely well...
 
I thought most cars ran closed loop today, except for right after startup? Wideband O2 sensors with heaters and all. It might be running rich but it's a precisely known rich?
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I thought most cars ran closed loop today, except for right after startup? Wideband O2 sensors with heaters and all. It might be running rich but it's a precisely known rich?


You are correct. My car is in closed loop very quickly after start up, and it does not know the stat temp being used.

In our fleet vehicles we run the stock stat. There is no benefit to changing it. Plus those trucks circulate ALL vital fluids through the coolant.

In a car or truck where you are shooting for performance and economy with some small tweaks a stat can sometimes be beneficial. It just has to be carefully researched and well thought out or it may be harmful or a complete dud mod...
 
Yup. one of the parameters for closed loop on EEC-IV is coolant temp, which has to hit 170F IIRC. This meant using a 180F stat was beneficial, as it caused to ECM to not pull timing, but using a 160 kept it in open loop, which causes fuel dilution and just generally isn't a good idea.
 
I've contemplated a hotter stat in my truck for the mpg, as I swear it burns more at 185 than it does 190. Probably my imagination, would have to set up some sort of datalogger to actually measure. I wouldn't mind having an active shutter setup, esp since winter is coming.
 
Overkill, are you sure the closed loop temp is so high? It seems odd because it would mean the cats aren't working 100% for a loong time after startup.
 
Originally Posted By: zpa
Overkill, are you sure the closed loop temp is so high? It seems odd because it would mean the cats aren't working 100% for a loong time after startup.


Yup, according to the GUFB (operating procedure and protocols programming manual) for EEC-IV, 170F is one of the parameters required for closed loop to happen.

And over-enrichment encourages cat light-off and warm-up. But I could see operating in that mode indefinitely to be detrimental for catalyst life, hence anybody familiar with the documentation advises a 180F thermostat as "optimal" for an EEC-IV vehicle.

Basically, you get the best of both worlds. No timing retard based on the timing table (which uses coolant temp as one of its parameters) but the benefit of operating in closed loop when not WOT.
 
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