What is harder on oils - Bikes vs Turbocharged car

[Booki]

Hey all, I have been thinking lately about all the specifications of oils for motorcycles vs cars.

Now there are a few oils out there, least in aus that are full synthetic, go on sale often enough and are a good quality full synthetic oil and say they are suitable for motorcycles, but carry no JASO certification.

Have even heard directly from manufactures of these brands that they are fine for use in motorcycles, yet don't have the JASO certificate.

From my understanding JASO means that its safe for wet clutch use. Most motorcycle still call for a API specification.

None the less, it got me thinking about what is actually harder on a oil.

A turbo charged car engine, where oil goes through some very hot turbines in road cars.

Or on a 4 stroke motorcycle where the oil is used with the clutch and gears?

Most bikes would have almost double the rpm's of cars but i don't think rpm's tell all the story - keen to hear some other opinion's as my thoughts are a turbocharged engine would be much harder on a engine oil vs a motorcycle. With that conclusion, using the same oil in my motorcycles should not be a issue

 

[bioburner]

An air cooled bike would be pretty hard on the oil. I have a BMW that's a dry clutch and liquid cooled that I use 20-50 Shaffers in. The small sump of cycles make the change out not very inexpensive anyway so go for the best. Ripping down the road at 3 digit speeds is no place to cut a couple $$. Car turbines get a fair volume of oil and other design additions to help.

 

[Booki]

Sorry I should have been more specific, all the motorcycles in question are water cooled. Specifically a WR250F and Street Triple R. I do agree a air cooled bike may be more demanding due to also cooling the engine, but generally they have larger sumps to accommodate this don't they?

 

[SuperSalad]

A turbocharger and a shared sump motorcycle stress oil in different ways. The RPM, heat, and I believe oil pressure of a turbo are going to far exceed that of a motorcycle. However, one of the biggest stresses on motorcycle oil is the physical abuse from the gears and clutch in the transmission. The turbo degrades oil because of heat and pressure, but the motorcycle is degraded because of the physical interaction between gears, clutch and it also deals with the stresses of the engine.

Simply put, if I were formulating an oil for a turbocharged engine and an oil for a motorcycle, I would build them differently because they have different needs.

Could one reasonably function in the other's place? Probably, but I'm sure there are better options within the products specifically formulated for each application.

 

[D Hill]

My two air-cooled '84 FJ 1100s are definitely harder on oil than any liquid cooled bike I've owned, and about average for other air cooled bikes (except a husqvarna motard I owned). I run amsoil motorcycle formulation and do approximately 4-5K ocis. I have larger oil coolers and spin on oil filter mounts. After 5K I would begin to hear a little more mechanical noise at startup (with no drop in level to account for change.) For giggles I ran castrol motorcycle oil once and it was shot in half the time. With filter the FJs take approx 4quarts to fill, which is almost the same as my wife's '02 Focus ZX5. I run Amsoil signature in that and I've run a year and 20k miles, with life left in the oil. I typically do 12K ocis so it never has any complaints about how I treat it. I have a friend who has a 1.6 Ecoboost Focus and the only way to get 10K out the oil was to use Amsoil or M1. 7,500 oci with the what the dealership put in came out looking like French Roast left on the stove all day.

The engine sharing oil with the trans adds a lot of work for the oil to do. But the added heat and rpms that turbos produce is no joke either. I also wonder if direct injection is harder on the oil. I keep hearing first and second-hand accounts of carbon buildup with motors from many different manufacturers. Enough buildup to effect normal engine operation. A direct injected turbo mill must take no prisoners when it comes to oil use.

 

[barryh]

If a motorcycle like my old BMW has a dry clutch, separate gearbox with it's own oil and max 7000 RPM then I would have thought it would be easier on oil than a turbo.

 

[SilverSnake]

Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
A turbocharger and a shared sump motorcycle stress oil in different ways. The RPM, heat, and I believe oil pressure of a turbo are going to far exceed that of a motorcycle. However, one of the biggest stresses on motorcycle oil is the physical abuse from the gears and clutch in the transmission. The turbo degrades oil because of heat and pressure, but the motorcycle is degraded because of the physical interaction between gears, clutch and it also deals with the stresses of the engine.

Simply put, if I were formulating an oil for a turbocharged engine and an oil for a motorcycle, I would build them differently because they have different needs.

Could one reasonably function in the other's place? Probably, but I'm sure there are better options within the products specifically formulated for each application.


And then there is HD Syn 3 which works perfectly in the engine, transmission, and primary chain case.

 

[HouseTiger]

Don't know about the turbo charger - leave that to those who deal with 'em. All my bikes in the last 30 years have been liquid cooled Hondas, both big Shadows and Gold Wings. They all have common engine transmission wet clutch sumps. Besides lubricating the engine, the crunching of gears and the clutch can get pretty well beat up motor oil.

 

[SuperSalad]

r
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
A turbocharger and a shared sump motorcycle stress oil in different ways. The RPM, heat, and I believe oil pressure of a turbo are going to far exceed that of a motorcycle. However, one of the biggest stresses on motorcycle oil is the physical abuse from the gears and clutch in the transmission. The turbo degrades oil because of heat and pressure, but the motorcycle is degraded because of the physical interaction between gears, clutch and it also deals with the stresses of the engine.

Simply put, if I were formulating an oil for a turbocharged engine and an oil for a motorcycle, I would build them differently because they have different needs.

Could one reasonably function in the other's place? Probably, but I'm sure there are better options within the products specifically formulated for each application.


And then there is HD Syn 3 which works perfectly in the engine, transmission, and primary chain case.

That certainly is what the SYN3 label says on it.

 

[SilverSnake]

Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
r
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
A turbocharger and a shared sump motorcycle stress oil in different ways. The RPM, heat, and I believe oil pressure of a turbo are going to far exceed that of a motorcycle. However, one of the biggest stresses on motorcycle oil is the physical abuse from the gears and clutch in the transmission. The turbo degrades oil because of heat and pressure, but the motorcycle is degraded because of the physical interaction between gears, clutch and it also deals with the stresses of the engine.

Simply put, if I were formulating an oil for a turbocharged engine and an oil for a motorcycle, I would build them differently because they have different needs.

Could one reasonably function in the other's place? Probably, but I'm sure there are better options within the products specifically formulated for each application.


And then there is HD Syn 3 which works perfectly in the engine, transmission, and primary chain case.

That certainly is what the SYN3 label says on it.

 

[SilverSnake]

Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
r
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
A turbocharger and a shared sump motorcycle stress oil in different ways. The RPM, heat, and I believe oil pressure of a turbo are going to far exceed that of a motorcycle. However, one of the biggest stresses on motorcycle oil is the physical abuse from the gears and clutch in the transmission. The turbo degrades oil because of heat and pressure, but the motorcycle is degraded because of the physical interaction between gears, clutch and it also deals with the stresses of the engine.

Simply put, if I were formulating an oil for a turbocharged engine and an oil for a motorcycle, I would build them differently because they have different needs.

Could one reasonably function in the other's place? Probably, but I'm sure there are better options within the products specifically formulated for each application.


And then there is HD Syn 3 which works perfectly in the engine, transmission, and primary chain case.

That certainly is what the SYN3 label says on it.


Yes and after using it exclusively in 6 different HD bikes I owned with zero issues I am guessing the label is right. I worked for an HD dealer in sales for years and recommended Syn3 for all my customers. Never had an issue or complaint from any of them.

 

[SR5]

A small sump (< 2L), air-cooled, wet clutch, shared sump dirt bike.

Ride it hard up sand dunes on a hot summers day, high revs, slow speed and low air flow.

Change your oil every 1000 miles.

 

[BrocLuno]

Have not had a liquid cooled bike in while. All mine are air cooled. Honda and Kawi made some turbo bikes back a few years ago with shared sumps, so those would be the hardest on oil.

Any oil that is certified for use in shared sump by Allison should be fine in any of these scenarios. Those oils have to do duty in big HP with shared tranny sumps with turbos

http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/approved-fluids/off-highway-fluids Imagine hauling 150 tons up a grade in the desert in a mining pit w/o a breath of wind in 110* heat for hours at a time. That'll beat oil up

 

[Silk]

My turbo car (850 T5) would clean up my bike (R65) anywhere, anytime - more acceleration, higher top speed, and embarassingly maybe better handling, but the oil probably has an easier time than the bike, which has no gearbox or clutch used by the oil. For me bikes are performance vehicles and get used very hard when I ride them, they are past the redline on every shift...a car for me just transports people and stuff I need to carry. My aircooled 4 stroke trials bike would be the toughest on oil I own - running all day at very slow speeds, it gets really hot...and gets an HDEO.

 

[KL31]

Direct injection turbo cars are getting pretty good at beating the snot out oil these days as per many UOA here.

No idea if they beat on oil as hard as the bikes do though.

Ones things for certain though, no one owns a bike and [censored] foots around all the time but many DI-T cars do and they still sodomise their oil.