What is going on with Toyota?

02SE said:
That's pathetic. Who are these Engineers that think that's an improved great design? Chintzy, brittle cast aluminum used in the top hat, is just STUPID. It looks like I'll be hanging on to my 5th gen 4Runner for awhile...
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Being one myself, non-degreed but have worked my way up the ladder for a long time from a technologist in an R&D to Production environment, I totally agree. I have seen some crazy sub-optimal material selection and design by interns and graduates and had to coach them on the importance of material selection, alloy grades for applications, and manufacturing process that makes up a part for an intended function of an assembly. Also had to argue people in leadership roles as well on the importance of such topics because how stuck up everyone these days are looking for lowest cost solution and that the race to the bottom isn't a reliable solution in the long term.

One criticism I will point out I have seen sometimes is the over reliance on Finite Elements modelings which can have severe flaws if not properly setup. Thankfully I have a massive excel formula sheet to verify manual calculations against digital models.
 
Allaneddie said:
I've never owned or driven any Toyota and have only ridden in Prius taxicabs here and there. So not the best to judge at all but I assumed Toyota was living on hype started by Consumer Reports or some other journal. Don't believe everything you read, hear or google. As a result people think: "it's a Toyota so it is better than anything else".
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Based on my experience with them it is not hype. Of course my newest one is a 2017 MY. Can't speak on the recent ones. I've owned many different brands of cars and trucks, both domestic and "import". The Toyotas have been by far the most reliable.
 
I had 3 early Toyota PUs. The 22RE engine has to be one of the most reliable, long runners ever made. My 01 Tundra has a measly 220K; I never even check the oil.

I am not familiar with the current stuff, but our RX450h has been stellar.
 
02SE said:
That's pathetic. Who are these Engineers that think that's an improved great design? Chintzy, brittle cast aluminum used in the top hat, is just STUPID. It looks like I'll be hanging on to my 5th gen 4Runner for awhile...
Click to expand...
Steel for real - and aluminum has its place. Most of Jeep bodies are aluminum these days without the fanfare of Ford.
IMG_1066.webp


IMG_1131.webp
 
4WD said:
Steel for real - and aluminum has its place. Most of Jeep bodies are aluminum these days without the fanfare of Ford.View attachment 235602

View attachment 235603
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I've thought that, too. The JL is mostly aluminum-bodied but no one really talks about it -- at least not like Ford trucks.

The wife backed our JL into our gate the other night......GRRRRR. But I can't hardly yell at her when she's crying ;)
 
Allaneddie said:
I've never owned or driven any Toyota and have only ridden in Prius taxicabs here and there. So not the best to judge at all but I assumed Toyota was living on hype started by Consumer Reports or some other journal. Don't believe everything you read, hear or google. As a result people think: "it's a Toyota so it is better than anything else".
Click to expand...

I was a Toyota Master Tech at one time, and later at independent shops that worked on all makes and models. I grew to appreciate Toyota vehicles based on the fact they were generally more reliable. I own two currently. One a newer model, but an old design, and one that is just old (inherited), but still runs like new.

Seeing Toyota obviously cutting corners, is disappointing to me.
 
02SE said:
I was a Toyota Master Tech at one time, and later at independent shops that worked on all makes and models. I grew to appreciate Toyota vehicles based on the fact they were generally more reliable. I own two currently. One a newer model, but an old design, and one that is just old (inherited), but still runs like new.

Seeing Toyota obviously cutting corners, is disappointing to me.
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think all car makes doing it. But i agree, its disappointing
 
Mewbs said:
Being one myself, non-degreed but have worked my way up the ladder for a long time from a technologist in an R&D to Production environment, I totally agree. I have seen some crazy sub-optimal material selection and design by interns and graduates and had to coach them on the importance of material selection, alloy grades for applications, and manufacturing process that makes up a part for an intended function of an assembly. Also had to argue people in leadership roles as well on the importance of such topics because how stuck up everyone these days are looking for lowest cost solution and that the race to the bottom isn't a reliable solution in the long term.

One criticism I will point out I have seen sometimes is the over reliance on Finite Elements modelings which can have severe flaws if not properly setup. Thankfully I have a massive excel formula sheet to verify manual calculations against digital models.
Click to expand...

Having worked in professional racing for many years, we occasionally got newly minted 'Engineers', that were going to set the racing teams on fire with their better way of doing things. The same issue, not understanding that materials like Steel, Aluminum, Titanium, etc, were not always directly interchangeable, was news to them. The material (and different grades of materials) properties matter.

To @4WD, yes, aluminum is a fine choice for some applications, but as you noted, not all.
 
Arch Stanton said:
Based on my experience with them it is not hype. Of course my newest one is a 2017 MY. Can't speak on the recent ones. I've owned many different brands of cars and trucks, both domestic and "import". The Toyotas have been by far the most reliable.
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An N=1 proves nothing. My current Jeep is the most reliable vehicle I’ve ever had but I know not everyone has had this experience.
 
I know folks who have run old-school Toyotas to death with well over 200K and typical non-enthusiast owner maintenance. This is true of so many models, like the Camry, the Corolla, the RAV and Highlander as well as those badged as Lexus along with the real RWD Lexus platforms. Not sexy and not at all leading in tech, just very good and long-lived machines.
No issues.
Maybe this is the appropriate route for the company?
Return to the days of building well-proven tech well and avoid the leading edge.
Few people can honestly choose a Toyota for the excitement factor and the more exciting designs appear to be the most troublesome.
 
02SE said:
That's pathetic. Who are these Engineers that think that's an improved great design? Chintzy, brittle cast aluminum used in the top hat, is just STUPID. It looks like I'll be hanging on to my 5th gen 4Runner for awhile...
Click to expand...
Aluminum top hat? Truly that is amazingly stupid. What does a stamped steel top hat weight - 3 lbs? So they saved 8 ounces, maybe. Cost more too. Just what everyone needs is a brittle suspension part.

I drove by the Toyota dealer the other day - I don't very often. They had several Taco's out front. That particular store hasn't had inventory on much for 4 years. I imagine that most are unaware of the problems, so they must simply be too pricy.
 
All the Toyotas I've driven/been a passenger in or rented that are under 15 years old have seemed really cheaply made to me - have not driven a Tacoma of any generation though. It seems like they've especially cut corners on their interiors. I really believe Toyota floats a long a lot on the reputation they built in the 70's and 80's, but that type of quality and reliability - and simplicity of design are long gone, imo. Doesn't mean the vehicles are junk, just means "simple, reliable, and well made" have all taken a back seat to profits and surviving.

I also think the incredible cost of doing business these days has had a bad effect on pretty much all auto makers, including Nissan and Honda. You really have to do your research on anything you're interested in because model to model, generation to generation things can change dramatically. There are no brands or models I would buy or recommend without majorly looking into their track record. Just how it is.
 
PWMDMD said:
I read the same thing for two years about the 3.4L and now 105,000 vehicles are getting long blocks. I’m not saying it’s the end of the world but there seems to be more issues than normal with recent releases.
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Toyotas for years have had many quality problems. I have owned 4 Toyotas 1 Camry and 3 pick ups ,1 got p/u rear ended when parked and was totaled , it broke my heart and I will say they weren't a whole lot better that the Fords I owned. But them I really hate cars.
 
SC Maintenance said:
Aluminum top hat? Truly that is amazingly stupid. What does a stamped steel top hat weight - 3 lbs? So they saved 8 ounces, maybe. Cost more too. Just what everyone needs is a brittle suspension part.

I drove by the Toyota dealer the other day - I don't very often. They had several Taco's out front. That particular store hasn't had inventory on much for 4 years. I imagine that most are unaware of the problems, so they must simply be too pricy.
Click to expand...

The price is no doubt a factor too. Top of the line Tacoma's can have an MSRP in the 65k range. Then some are adding their ADM (Additional Dealer Markup) on top of that.
 
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