What is a long trip really like in an EV?

alarmguy said:
Cant disagree, but as Ev's get more popular we will get a more clear picture. The purchasers who buy right now we know dont care about charging or stopping and as even Jeff admits, likes to fly. This is your typical EV buyer right now, the enthusiast, the commuter.

Other EV buyers like mentioned in this very forum still maintain gasoline vehicles for the security of maybe preferring to take them on long trips or as their tow vehicle OR as a nice big family size SUV. But you leave out that part of the story.
If the EV was the ultimate driving machine everyone would dump gasoline tomorrow. Never going to happen.

Furthermore there is ZERO available 3 row size SUV in EV form at the current time anywhere near the price level of more affordable Gasoline SUVs that FAR greater range and towing capacity for the money. (You leave that out too)

On a cost basis an EV may make sense even if you're ok with a compact 4 door sedan like the Model 3 in some places and for some uses. Energy cost in CA is 300% higher over there (think about that! 300%!!! My god! *LOL* gasoline up to 100% more expensive there) than in many places of the East Coast and maybe why SUVs and Pick up trucks rule the roads here.

We can afford to live in comfort! We also like adventure and can go off driving anyplace without planing any stops at all, we can tow a boat with us, tow a camper, zero concerns and the price for the vehicle is less. For purposes like this, currently an EV makes no sense.
We can travel at 85 MPH care free all day, even while towing!

This isnt rocket science. I dont have to buy an EV to find this out, its indisputable but some EV proponents in here focus on one narrative and that is charging which is laughable until EVs populate 15% of the vehicles on the road. Also laughable is to narrow down the use of a vehicle to only one purpose while ignoring or discounting how other people use a vehicle.

I too MAY own a EV as a second car. My wife Mazda 3 now 13 years old sits in the driveway for days or weeks at a time and never moves, still only has 85,000 miles on it. I very well, if given the chance buy a BOLT (never seen one yet) since the taxpayers are paying a third the cost. This would only make sense for this use.
It would be an ideal purpose for a compact EV for us. Second car, rarely used and I would NEVER ever take it on a 4 hour trip to visit my son and family. That is my one concern.
The Chevy Traverse is the ultimate comport for that, as well as towing out boat, as well as buying stuff in Lowes and Home Depot.

What's more, who needs solar to charge what would be my EV at night!??! Our cost for night time off peak electricity is .0437 kWr FOUR CENTS! ... how much is it on the West Coast? Gosh, I mean, voters got to take some responsibility for your insane costs over there.
Ok, it's hot outside maybe I should take a 10 minute drive to the beach... or is it 8 minutes ? *LOL*
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There is a clear picture today.

How does hearing about what your choices and limitations are answer the OP's question?

Everyone knows how ice vehicles work.

I can afford to live in comfort as well, my idea of comfort isn't seeing how far I can physically go without stopping, but stopping a few times on a days drive for a short durations. Ev's work just the same as ice when traveling this way. People that travel that way may find EV's are just fine for them.

Perhaps an EV will work for your in town car someday, perhaps not.

On solar Im not sure if you are asking a question, or making a statement?
I cant speak to solar contracts in your area, but typically they allow you to bank what you make during the day for offset use at any time, but yes nighttime is when the lowest rates typically are.

Solar doesn't make sense many places, but if it does and you live in areas where your vote doest count, but you have a compatible roof, you can take the matter into your own hands as I and many others have. I detest being controlled by both government or utilitiy companies so I remove their power over me by solving the problem on my own.
 
MSCH said:
my wife has 2012 Camaro. 95000 miles on it.. biggest expense for me is the insurance as I doubt she goes thru one tank of gas a month... and a set of fairly expensive tires that will dry rot before she wears them out? I'm guessing what I am saying is a car payment isn't going to be less expensive than what I or you are currently paying out for the amount of use it sounds like our significant others are getting out of their current mode of transportation.

But I have a different question along the same lines, I'm going to post a picture of my wife's car and mention it has been as reliable as an anvil, so if you were in my situation would you trade in or sell this car below for a new hatchback EV?View attachment 152017
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1) my ev would crush it for performance, unless its a zl1.
2) you dont put any miles on it. Its cheaper than an ev to own and operate. Id be looking at a 2024 mustang of some variant with MRC suspension, or keep it.
 
MSCH said:
my wife has 2012 Camaro. 95000 miles on it.. biggest expense for me is the insurance as I doubt she goes thru one tank of gas a month... and a set of fairly expensive tires that will dry rot before she wears them out? I'm guessing what I am saying is a car payment isn't going to be less expensive than what I or you are currently paying out for the amount of use it sounds like our significant others are getting out of their current mode of transportation.

But I have a different question along the same lines, I'm going to post a picture of my wife's car and mention it has been as reliable as an anvil, so if you were in my situation would you trade in or sell this car below for a new hatchback EV?View attachment 152017
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You're asking the wrong question that everyone asks when they try to discount electric. It's never cheaper to buy a new car. The question is only valid if you're in the market for a new car and are buying a new car anyway. I didn't buy a Model 3 to save money on gas, I bought it because it would be cheaper to operate than the other cars we were considering when buying a new car. I bought a Model 3 because it was time to replace my wife's car and especially with her driving habits it made a lot of sense over another gas car. What's funny is how much it actually saves me buying fuel because I drive it instead of my car on my days off. Just before that I sold my truck and went to driving a GTI which uses roughly half the gas my truck used. We're at a point where my house uses 1/3 of the fuel it did at this time last year.

The repairs on the Ford Edge it replaced was insanely expensive. I was done sinking money into it. Before that we had a Lincoln LS that was mechanically totaled for a failed part that did not have an aftermarket option and Ford no longer made. Labor was insane and the shop did not recommend using a used part due to known failure rate on said part. Obviously the reoccurring problem here is Ford, but she had no interest in a gas car at this point anyway.

So short answer. No I don't recommend replacing the car with an EV unless you're considering a new car purchase anyway.
 
The Critic said:
Slightly off-topic - is it common for people to take >400 mile trips by car? Seems like a huge waste of time.

With limited time-off from work, it is much more time efficient to fly.
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It really depends on what is your alternative.

If you have a family of 5 you probably save a lot of money driving a minivan than flying then rent a van + parking at the airport long term parking. It also depends on how much you make and how picky you are with airplane seats and flight hours.
 
https://www.wapcar.my/news/china’s-...-over-charging-ports-no-ac-for-families-34850

So the experiment in China told us the worst-case scenario: mass EV adoption, insufficient power grid, and charging infrastructure not caught up to EV production.

In the US we have less of a problem because most families have 2 vehicles and rarely will you see both being EV, and gas is cheap, and flying is cheap.

What can an all EV future do to address long distance trip on a national holiday? It would need to have a lot of battery capacity stored somewhere throughout the year and a lot of fast charging, both would cost a lot of money in idle capacity not used during the off peak time (non holiday) just sitting there. The only way this would work, IMO, is battery swap with grid buffering. When battery is common and standardized between different brand and models, they can be owned by large companies and leased to car owners, with enough kept idle as grid storage in a swap station during off season, fully charged up before the anticipated peak season, and then swap fast during travel season, and back to grid storage during off season. I think this would be the least wasteful future but we aren't there.

The other alternative is a small generator trailer towed in the back to boost range during travel season. Something with a 300 mile range capacity and some cargo capacity, maybe 50hp constant output to keep the EV pulling it up front going, no transmission, no AC, just a quiet generator that doesn't stink. Something you can rent in a U-haul or rental car spot?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genset_trailer
 
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PandaBear said:
https://www.wapcar.my/news/china’s-...-over-charging-ports-no-ac-for-families-34850

So the experiment in China told us the worst-case scenario: mass EV adoption, insufficient power grid, and charging infrastructure not caught up to EV production.

In the US we have less of a problem because most families have 2 vehicles and rarely will you see both being EV, and gas is cheap, and flying is cheap.

What can an all EV future do to address long distance trip on a national holiday? It would need to have a lot of battery capacity stored somewhere throughout the year and a lot of fast charging, both would cost a lot of money in idle capacity not used during the off peak time (non holiday) just sitting there. The only way this would work, IMO, is battery swap with grid buffering. When battery is common and standardized between different brand and models, they can be owned by large companies and leased to car owners, with enough kept idle as grid storage in a swap station during off season, fully charged up before the anticipated peak season, and then swap fast during travel season, and back to grid storage during off season. I think this would be the least wasteful future but we aren't there.

The other alternative is a small generator trailer towed in the back to boost range during travel season. Something with a 300 mile range capacity and some cargo capacity, maybe 50hp constant output to keep the EV pulling it up front going, no transmission, no AC, just a quiet generator that doesn't stink. Something you can rent in a U-haul or rental car spot?
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At the moment it sounds like a lot more trouble that it's worth.
 
The Critic said:


She has an older Model 3 SR+ with a range that is similar to a VW ID.3 (~250 miles). I'll save you the trouble of watching - even with Tesla's excellent route planning that no one else currently matches, it can be a royal pain.
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Great route planning? This is terrible. The car clearly could have skipped several stops on this trip. The 3 stops in Williams, Corning and Cottonwood are particularly egrigious, those three cities are only 80 some odd miles apart. If she would have just charged to 100% at the hotel they could have gone Napa-Cottonwood which is 175 miles, still leaving them above 20% of the theoretical 240 miles of range.

I clearly would not be willing to delegate this task to the car. I'd rather stop a little longer and let the thing fully recharge than go through all that.
 
Brons2 said:
Great route planning? This is terrible. The car clearly could have skipped several stops on this trip. The 3 stops in Williams, Corning and Cottonwood are particularly egrigious, those three cities are only 80 some odd miles apart. If she would have just charged to 100% at the hotel they could have gone Napa-Cottonwood which is 175 miles, still leaving them above 20% of the theoretical 240 miles of range.

I clearly would not be willing to delegate this task to the car. I'd rather stop a little longer and let the thing fully recharge than go through all that.
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It’s a balancing act - you don’t want to charge longer than needed to get to the next stop. The charge rate drops significantly as the SOC rises.

Software also knows that range will vary depending on the terrain and projected consumption, and based on live data.
 
The Critic said:
It’s a balancing act - you don’t want to charge longer than needed to get to the next stop. The charge rate drops significantly as the SOC rises.

Software also knows that range will vary depending on the terrain and projected consumption, and based on live data.
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Napa to Cottonwood is about as flat as a pancake. I've done Willamette Valley to Bay Area and back dozens of times.
 
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