What group of oil?

[phlfly]

I have a question, if I'm at store how to know what group oils this oil? I mean group III, IV, V......
Like for ex: Mobil 1 5w30 there is nothing said on back label it's group IV or Castrol group III. Because my understanding there is only several oil are "real" synthetic oils, like Mobil, Amsoil, Royal Purple and Redline is a Group V PolyEster based oil. Right?


Thanks

 

[Quattro Pete]

1. There is no way to know for sure the exact composition of each oil. Most oils are made up of a mix of various oil groups to achieve a specific level of performance.

2. Not every single Mobil and Amsoil oil product is a "real" synthetic.

3. The actual group composition of an oil is rather irrelevant these days. Focus on the oil's performance (the specs it meets) rather than on its ingredients.

 

[phlfly]

How to know which Mobil 1 is synthetic?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
How to know which Mobil 1 is synthetic?

There is no sure way to tell, but maybe someone else can chime in on this. This is all proprietary information. If I had to guess, judging by pour point, their motorcycle oils are still predominantly group IV/V. The rest is predominantly group III+ (VISOM). But you're missing the point that I was trying to get across. Group III/III+ oils are so good these days that they can meet the most stringent mfg specs. Case in point: M1 0w-40. It's probably XOM's most advanced car lubricant and meets some of the most demanding mfg specs, despite not being a group IV/V oil.

 

[phlfly]

I see, well I was suprise manufacture doesn't specify grade anymore, kind strange.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
I see, well I was suprise manufacture doesn't specify grade anymore, kind strange.

Not strange at all when you think of the advancements that the oil industry has gone through in recent past. 20-30 years ago, group IV/V was in fact something special and better than anything else, so many companies bragged about it. These days, group III/III+ oils have become so good that group IV/V don't really hold a noticeable advantage in most applications. It's really the composition of the oil as a whole (multiple oil groups plus a finely tuned additive pack) and not any one single ingredient that results in a premium product.

Today's oils are formulated to hit specific performance criteria such as MB 229.5 for example. Once you know what performance hurdle you want to meet, then the oil formulator will mix a number of oil bases and additives to achieve this spec. So the spec dictates what oil ingredients to use and not the other way around. Nobody now sets out to create an oil by saying "I want to have an oil that will be 100% group IV." Apart from the fact that it's not even possible to have such an oil, it would serve no other purpose than to have some bragging rights while not really solving any particular problems that modern engines pose.

 

[phlfly]

I see, I have BMW and I don't know a reason to use their high miles oils when it's bad to change every 15,000 miles, but I do mine every 5,000-7,000 miles and I learned with Mobil 1 5w30 the engine sounds better less valve noise on morning start ups compare to BMW oil and Castrol Euro 0W-30. So it might not with BMW specification, but it works better I guess, at least the by the engine sound.

 

[dparm]

As a general rule of thumb, anything under $10/qt is likely group III/III+. Probably has some IV/V, but not much.

 

[Mitch Alsup]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
How to know which Mobil 1 is synthetic?


Easy! Use RedLine

 

[phlfly]

Is it really good? Never thier product due the afraid of it, thought it's more ad product.

 

[Mitch Alsup]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
Is it really good? Never thier product due the afraid of it, thought it's more ad product.


For the application I use it for, yes. That application is running the snot out of my Ferrari at race tracks. This is an HTS sensitive application with oil temps in the 285dF range, and not so much TBN, NOACK, cold starts, ...

For more typical uses, I don't really think there is a hill of beans different in the top 10 motor oils.

 

[skyship]

Look the oil up on a German site, as they only call group 4 or 5 oils full synthetic (Voll synthetic or synthoil) and refer the group 3 oils as synthetic technology.

 

[Garak]

The only issue with that is ensuring that the German oil is the same oil as sold in North America. That's not always the case. Heck, even Motorcraft oil in Canada is different from that in the States, let alone differences in other brands between Germany and the States.

 

[chubbs1]

Just keep it simple and use the M1 if it is working well for you. Most M1 formulations are made of many different blends and ratios of high quality base. I have seen grp. III perform better (in UOA's at least) than grp. IV or V's.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: phlfly
How to know which Mobil 1 is synthetic?


15W50 was shown to be a grp IV/V on here somewhere a long time ago.

 

[fdcg27]

There are a couple of members here who could probably give a pretty good guess as to the basestocks used in various oils.
There are no doubt lurkers here who really have that information.
For the rest of us, basestock composition is merely speculation.
Very few blenders tell us what's really in their oil.
Also, the performance line between Grp III and Grp IV basestocks is no longer very clear, especially for GTL Grp IIIs, which may be better than Grp IVs.
Anyway, judge an oil by how it performs, not by what you think it might be made of.
There are some seemingly lackluster oils that deliver consistently superior UOAs.
In selecting an oil, the UOA forum is your friend.
A UOA or two from your engine for the way that you use it is also very useful, as well as entertaining.
Decide what you like, run it, UOA it and go from there.