what gear oil to use?

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hello everyone, first post here. this site is very well known for being bang on with oil, so here goes!

i'm having a terrible time trying to find the correct oil for my car. its a 2004 hyundai accent, manual. the spec from hyundai is 75W-90 GL-4. as i understand the GL-5 or oils that cover both GL4 and 5 are inappropriate due to the higher sulfur content which wears away at the brass synchro rings.

you'd think this would be easy, but the dealers will not sell the oil. also i have been to every parts store in town with no luck.

i know everyone is going to say use redline MT90 but i am very hesitant to use a synthetic again. here is why:

used amsoil full synthetic 75W-90 GL4 in the past, exact spec except synthetic over conventional. at 160k kms the trans blew a bearing and the result was having to spend over $1000 on a used transmission and installation. normally i would not blame the oil, but here's where it gets strange...i put the same oil in the new trans thinking i had bad luck with the last one. then going into 3rd the trans would grind briefly but would work. had a warranty and the shop rebuilt the trans finding no evidence of defects...rebuilt 3rd gear components anyways since its under warranty.

after this the trans STILL had the same issue. the solution was to change over to conventional oil. still running fine to this day.

now after doing the CV boots i needed to top up the trans. i couldn't find conventional 75W-90 GL4 anywhere. i ended up using about half a quart of cheap [censored] 80W-90 that covers quite a few specs...GL3, 4, 5, god knows what else. by the way, this issue forced me to reuse the oil i drained out. cleaned the drain pan well prior, etc.

i was hoping someone could give me some insight as to what is going on and what my options are here. the hyundai forums are quite useless, you are pretty much a heretic if you don't use the redline stuff. can't get anywhere there.

thanks guys. teach the noob!
 
I have also been struggling to find an easily available oil for my manual transmission vehicles that have yellow metal parts and require GL-4. I have had great results using Pennzoil Synchromesh fluid which is available at most US parts chains. (Autozone, Advance Etc.) I have used it in an 04 Civic, 04 Ranger 3.0, 93 Celica 2.2 and all have experienced better cold and hot shifting over the unknown fluid that was in them before.(Actually the Civic was fine before and after)
 
25 years ago,GL5 AND GL4 were unbuffered as to the sulfur content.
They could, over time and with heat and moisture, cause corrosion of brass parts.
If modern super manual trans oils give you problems, you are an anomaly, not the norm at all. I believe bad things happened,but probably for different reasons.
 
What previous 2 cars did you have manual transmission problems?

Just because a car has a manual transmission and stock power levels does not mean that you will never have manual transmission problems. Many years of the Mitsubishi Eclipse and SAAB 900 are the first 2 examples that I can think of.
 
thanks for the replies guys.

firstly, this is not two different vehicles. this is the same vehicle. i had the transmission replaced after it killed itself.

i fully agree that the failure may not have been the fault of the lubricant, nor did i believe it was at the start of this fiasco. what has made me suspect that it may be is as i described above:
trans was swapped. used the same oil and experienced problems shifting on 3rd. switching to conventional FIXED the problem.

so that's two transmissions that possibly didn't like that oil. bit too much of a coincidence for me!

as for the shell spirax their website is godawful...it appears that for a passenger car the oil is synthetic. can't say much from that trash.

finally, i have some questions: mechtech you mentioned about GL4/5 being 'unbuffered'...what exactly do you mean? all the information i have been finding tells me that GL5 is NOT compatible with GL4 and that for the brass synchro rings GL4/5 compatible oils are NOT suitable. can someone clarify?

keep in mind i am not looking for a 'here use this oil' recommendation. i'm looking for the information on why one is recommended over the other or why/how my previously trans issues may or may not be lubricant related so i can make my own decision as to what to use.
 
GL4 is not without sulfur. It has 1/3-1/2 that of GL5.
Better in that respect.
Generally, if the bottle specs GL4 and GL5, it is buffered.
Most modern over the counter lubes are buffered.
And some use different additives, with no sulfur.

You will never know the exact reasons for your trans failures.
The oil used may have actually HELPED things, and made it last longer!

And c'mon now... judging an oil in a used transmission??
You can't see how that is invalid?

Our best bet is with a Full Synthetic by a major player.
Their track record is better on paper and in real life.
Redline and Amsoil are common and very good. I love the Ford 75-90 - it is my favorite so far.
 
i'm going to ask again - what do you mean by buffered? please explain.

and no i don't see how judging an oil in a used transmission is invalid AFTER it has seen a full rebuild. without a teardown, then i would agree.

and yes i can agree that the amsoil may not have been the cause of the original failure as i have already said. however, you can't rule it out either. somehow i find it difficult to justify running synthetic just for the sake of it being synthetic when the potential consequences are another repair bill for over $1000 or maybe $500 and hours upon hours of my time which i do not have right now - not matter how small that chance may be.

that being said i am now looking for redline somewhere but nobody wants to sell it in canada. only reason i don't have a choice anymore. nobody here can even suggest a non GL5 conventional oil, i can't find it by any google searches, certainly not in stores in the correct oil weight, so i'm boned.
 
Buffering makes the sulfur non corrosive [at least it attenuates it a lot].
Same reason BUFFERIN exists - an aspirin that negates the trauma on peoples stomachs.

And I give up... you are right.
Your brand new perfect transmissions were ruined by Amsoil!
 
Originally Posted By: zero_gravity

that being said i am now looking for redline somewhere but nobody wants to sell it in canada. only reason i don't have a choice anymore. nobody here can even suggest a non GL5 conventional oil, i can't find it by any google searches, certainly not in stores in the correct oil weight, so i'm boned.


Puzzling comments... plus the previous "awful / trash Spirax" website one... anyway...

1) "Nobody here" - Shell Spirax G2 G is a mineral GL4. If you want mineral there you go. I have used this before as I mentioned in my quest for mineral GL4. I then checked the website out, from multiple searches / angles and the Spirax info is all there. Nevertheless I have spelled out for you -> G2. Here it is in writing if you need it:

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GSAP_msds_00359015.PDF

Here is a complete Canadian product line brochure not from the Spirax website:

http://www.armandhcoutureltd.ca/document/shell.pdf

2) Re: Redline "Nobody wants to sell it in Canada" - Redline is available all over Canada. I buy mine from MOPAC. If you go to the Redline site you can type in your postal code to get the nearest Canadian retailer. If you are not in a large metropolitan area you can get it shipped ground. Ordering Redline from Summit Racing, yes not Canada I know, is quite seamless as well.

Hope you find what you are looking for.
 
Having change and rebuilt hyundai-c..p manual gearboxes i know that oil isnt what to blame...its just a [censored] transmission, no oil will save em.
 
I've got a Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the locking rear end and crummy 6 sp manual. They spec GL4 for the trans and GL5 for the diff.

So I can swap the two specs? I would just like to get one fluid for both.

Edit: Currently use Redline light weight Synchromesh in the trans and the rear end has the factory fill.
 
I have tried many, and the best shifting in my Passat is Motul Motylgear 10w-40 GL-4. It's the same viscosity as 75w-90, it's just that it's multi-purpose, as it can be used as engine oil or gear oil. You can't put 75w-90 in an engine. It's safe for yellow metals and I've used it for several years and bought a case of it off Amazon for two vehicles.

" STANDARDS API SG/SH - API GL4 Lubricant for an efficient anti wear protection, reinforced with synthetic base stocks for a better resistance at high temperature and improved life time. Very high lubricating power which decreases friction and wear. Fluid at low temperature to allow easier gear shifting when the gearbox is cold. Less effort required on the gear lever to shift the gears. Suitable for any type of seal and yellow material used in gearboxes design. Anti-corrosion, Anti-foam."

Viscosity grade SAE J300 10W-40
Density at 15°C (59°F) ASTM D1298 0.878
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 108.8 mm/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 15.4 mm/s
Viscosity index VIE ASTM D2270 149
Flash point ASTM D92 230°C / 446°F
Pour point ASTM D97 -30°C / -22°F
 
I have a 2012 Elantra and I'm thinking on switching to synthetic gear oil so my interest here. I find this statement most revealing on the OPS concerns:

Quote:
i put the same oil in the new trans thinking i had bad luck with the last one. then going into 3rd the trans would grind briefly but would work. had a warranty and the shop rebuilt the trans finding no evidence of defects...rebuilt 3rd gear components anyways since its under warranty.

after this the trans STILL had the same issue. the solution was to change over to conventional oil. still running fine to this day.


So supposedly there were no defects with the transmission and Redline synthetic caused a grinding noise only in 3rd and some conventional oil fixed this grind. So the issue is can the transmission distinguish between conventional and synthetic oil to the extent that a grinding is caused by the conventional oil? I have limited insights here but know that my 98 Civic much prefers synthetic (Amsoil) to Honda's speced conventional oil. So this seems unlikely to me but plausible.

Now to my concerns. Are the Redline and the Ford oils both dual GL4 and 5 certified? My car turned 50K last week and I think it's time to swap over to synthetic to see how it goes.
Of course I want max protection but looking for smoother operation and the constant goal is maximum fuel economy.

Just looked and easily found the Redline specs, GL-4 duh.

MT-85 75W85 GL-4 Gear Oil

Recommended for Nissan 350Z and 370Z (also most Maxima, Altima & Sentra), Mitsubishi Evolution, Hyundai, and Kia applications
Many NV4500 truck transmission applications like Chevy Silverado and Dodge Ram, for Chrysler spec MS-9070
Safe for brass synchros, as it lacks the reactive sulfurs found in most GL-5 oils that cause damage
Offers quicker shifts, perfect synchronizer coefficient of friction
Eliminates notchy shifting, even when cold
High performance gear protection and longer synchro life
Recommended for GL-1, GL-3 and GL-4 applications as well as where most special synchromesh fluids are specified
Satisifies the gear oil viscosity requirements of 75W, 80W, 85W and motor oil viscosities of SAE 30 and 5W30
 
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