What exactly is a "Living wage"?

[aquariuscsm]

View attachment 109355

100% spot on!! I was born in 1969. Growing up in the 70s and 80s, I had friends who's fathers worked in factories, retail sales, etc. Some without even a high school diploma. Mothers didn't work, were stay at home moms. They had nice homes, country club memberships, kids went to private schools (we were all attending the same catholic school), and each parent had a current model car. Yep, life was different!

 

[zrxkawboy]

I agree with those who say a “living wage” is too hard to define. Let’s say Jane and Jill have the same duties at a company. Jane lives in her parents’ basement, while Jill is a single mom with 3 kids. The same wage allows Jane to drive a nice car and go on fun weekend trips with friends, while Jill struggles to make her house payment and other bills. Should Jill be paid double to give her the same standard of living, even though Jane performs the same duties?

 

[K-Man]

The problem here is the working poor in North America: those who work, don't qualify for any aid, but don't make enough money to afford to live independently. You don't find them in Western Europe because either you would make a decent wage working, or you're on the dole in subsidized housing.

I won't comment further about this subject right now, but just wanted to mention this.

 

[Astro14]

How about $200K plus for sitting on their butt and writing computer programs in an airconditioned, drop dead gorgeous building.
I can tell you that ticket taker works harder than than that programmer. Especially dealing with people, some of which may be looking down on them.

That ticket taker is an entry level job.

The same kind of entry level job that the programmer once had, before the programmer chose a career, got an education, gained experience, and rose in that same career.

The OP, and the programmer, are confusing job with career.

My daughter, the surgeon, once had a job, working at an ice cream store. She worked hard, likely harder than the ticket taker, and certainly for less money.

Her Dad didn’t think it was a career, and he certainly didn’t tell her to expect a “living wage” for a teenager’s job.

Her Dad expected her to value the money she was paid, to respect her boss, to work hard in school, and to pursue a career.

She chose medicine.

Not ice cream scooper. Not ticket taker.

The programmer needs to value the education and experience they gained in order to become a programmer, just as the world values the education and experience of a surgeon. Both have genuinely earned their current pay level.

The ticket taker has yet to earn anything beyond minimum wage.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.

 

[PimTac]

Back in the 50’s and 60’s a high school kid could get a job as a box boy or bagger. Sweeping floors, gas pump attendant, or delivery guy. My brother started out at Piggly Wiggly for $1.75/hr. It was a job to make some extra money for gas, clothes or whatever, not to live on. Those kinds of jobs taught responsibilities and financial awareness.

With the labor laws nowadays I don’t know if kids can even work though I do see some doing so like family members at a nearby teriyaki store. The high school daughter helps serve and clean up.

There is a lot of value and education in those jobs and it doesn’t come from a book.

 

[JeffKeryk]

That ticket taker is an entry level job.

The same kind of entry level job that the programmer once had, before the programmer chose a career, got an education, gained experience, and rose in that same career.

The OP, and the programmer, are confusing job with career.

My daughter, the surgeon, hence had a job, working at an ice cream store. She worked hard, likely harder than the ticket taker, and certainly for less money.

Her Dad didn’t think it was a career, and he certainly didn’t tell her to expect a “living wage” for a teenager’s job.

Her Dad expected her to value the money she was paid, to respect her boss, to work hard in school, and to pursue a career.

She chose medicine.

Not ice cream scooper. Not ticket taker.

The programmer needs to value the education and experience they gained in order to become a programmer, just as the world values the education and experience of a surgeon. Both have genuinely earned their current pay level.

The ticket taker has yet to earn anything beyond minimum wage.

All true.
I guess what I wonder is why is someone blessed with incredible abilities and work ethic like your daughter and others can barely take tickets?

Just a question; I have no answers...
But I know I am in awe of your daughter's outstanding accomplishments in her journey. And the wonderful contributions she will make in people's lives.
I have met many such along the way.

 

[Hall]

Please help me to understand how you are calculating what you said

I used the calculator you linked above. Let me look again. Haha !! It doesn't auto-calculate !! Oooops

 

[CKN]

But we still need people to take tickets, collect the trash, clean the bathrooms. Shouldn't they be able to sustain themselves in exchange for their labor?

The market should define what the wages are. If you can't get people to do those things-you need to pay more. The service industry (i.e. restaurants/fast food) have found this out recently.

 

[Stonemason Jason]

I would say most people using the phrase "living wage" mean a wage that a person can live comfortably on, unfortunately most businesses like to pay as little as they possibly can which makes it extremely hard for those doing the actual work to meet their needs & save money too, that is where a lot of people run into the problem of going into poverty & also have trouble getting out, my heart is with the poor, because I know what it's like to work horrible jobs & get the smallest reward, I have done hard labor jobs, I have pain from injuries that will not go away until I am out of this world, I received crumbs for my work while a rich person made massive gains, I have a lot of respect for those who are less fortunate, my respect for the rich? Well it lacks, I have never met anyone well off that was willing to put in the kind of work that their employees put in just to survive.

 

[Dave Hess]

Living wage is different in many areas of the country.

Its not easy to make a living and keep your head above water with everything getting more expensive.

 

[CKN]

I would say most people using the phrase "living wage" mean a wage that a person can live comfortably on, unfortunately most businesses like to pay as little as they possibly can which makes it extremely hard for those doing the actual work to meet their needs & save money too, that is where a lot of people run into the problem of going into poverty & also have trouble getting out, my heart is with the poor, because I know what it's like to work horrible jobs & get the smallest reward, I have done hard labor jobs, I have pain from injuries that will not go away until I am out of this world, I received crumbs for my work while a rich person made massive gains, I have a lot of respect for those who are less fortunate, my respect for the rich? Well it lacks, I have never met anyone well off that was willing to put in the kind of work that their employees put in just to survive.

This is too abstract. What does this mean to you? To me? To somebody else?
Too hard to define.

 

[Stonemason Jason]

This is too abstract. What does this mean to you? To me? To somebody else?
Too hard to define.

To me it means, instead of paying those who labor the smallest amount, why not give them what their work is worth, for example, people that clean bricks are in the sun burning up, in major pain from swinging their hammer for hours, these people get paid $50 to $75 per pallet for their labor, the person who pays them sells the pallet for up to $500, the bricks themselves come from a building or house that has been torn down, so the person that tore the building or house down has already made a major profit on that & is now underpaying people to do the labor of cleaning the bricks, why not pay the brick cleaners $200 a pallet instead of $50 to $75, it wouldn't put the person who is not doing the hard labor at a loss & it would give the person who is working their hand to the bone a better chance to succeed in life & live more comfortable like the one undercutting others pay to make the massive gain for themselves.

 

[Kestas]

Using the inflation calculator I made the equivalent of $11 per hour tutoring math at the University of Michigan for my summer job. It was just a summer job, I had no false expectations of making a living wage.

 

[Hall]

I would say most people using the phrase "living wage" mean a wage that a person can live comfortably on

Yes and "living wage" and "minimum wage" need to be separated and never connected. That said, I can't define "comfortably" for anyone else.

 

[CKN]

To me it means, instead of paying those who labor the smallest amount, why not give them what their work is worth, for example, people that clean bricks are in the sun burning up, in major pain from swinging their hammer for hours, these people get paid $50 to $75 per pallet for their labor, the person who pays them sells the pallet for up to $500, the bricks themselves come from a building or house that has been torn down, so the person that tore the building or house down has already made a major profit on that & is now underpaying people to do the labor of cleaning the bricks, why not pay the brick cleaners $200 a pallet instead of $50 to $75, it wouldn't put the person who is not doing the hard labor at a loss & it would give the person who is working their hand to the bone a better chance to succeed in life & live more comfortable like the one undercutting others pay to make the massive gain for themselves.

Do "these people" work in the U.S. legally?

 

[Stonemason Jason]

Yes

 

[skyactiv]

@Stonemason Jason, I see your a stonemason. I'm currently having a custom home built with a walkout basement. My home will have a multi tiered patio. The builder said the hardest labor to find is stonemasons. I'm not using illegals to construct my home and am paying more as such. Amish & Mennonites are doing most of the work. Big shortage of you guys in central Ohio.

 

[skyactiv]

Ohio prevailing wage for brick layers and stone masons.

https://wagehour.com.ohio.gov/w3/We...852565B80070693285256FEE006444FE?opendocument

 

[GMFan]

Living wage to me is ability to afford food, shelter and clothing without constant struggle for basic necessities. It’s different based on too many factors to mention and it’s also an arbitrary number based on who’s being asked. A living wage to a 16yr old is different from 40yr old parents with 2 kids.