It seems we focus so much on the oil, but I'm starting to think that it's the engineering of the engine that really plays a bigger role in used oil analysis. Toyota's, Subaru's, the 4.6L Ford etc. all show great wear on any oil. Oil brands do vary in quality but even with GM engines, they all show high wear. Quality of the engine design to me is much more significant.
What do you think?
- Thread starter buster
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Definately depends on the engine. Take a look at the Mercedes OM615 engines, they last 300k easily with the crappiest oils and whatever OCI's. The Jaguar I6's are very reliable too.
I have owned 3 older Mercedes I6's Benzes and 2 of them had over 200,000 miles on them ran regular 10W-40 oil and they still ran great with no smoking or abnormal oil consumption.
On the other hand I also had a 1990 Chevy Corsica, 3.1L although everyone says they are terrible engines i had 150k on mine and it ran great and pulled strong despite the blown trans and everything else in the car was broken (CHEAP GM CRAP CRAP). My friends have had corsicas with over 150k with no engine probs either.
I have owned 3 older Mercedes I6's Benzes and 2 of them had over 200,000 miles on them ran regular 10W-40 oil and they still ran great with no smoking or abnormal oil consumption.
On the other hand I also had a 1990 Chevy Corsica, 3.1L although everyone says they are terrible engines i had 150k on mine and it ran great and pulled strong despite the blown trans and everything else in the car was broken (CHEAP GM CRAP CRAP). My friends have had corsicas with over 150k with no engine probs either.
There are so many quality oils out there these days and you really can't go wrong with many of them. Some are better then others of course but this kind of relates to Patman's thread where many people get 200K + miles out of them using Xbrand oils. These Subarus and certain Toyota engines are incredible and show awesome wear numbers on so many different oils.
[ February 22, 2004, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
[ February 22, 2004, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
The engine design is critical to wear patern. Just as critical is material selection and treatment solution. GM will normaly design a decent product initialy. Then the bean counters take over. Buy the time the bean counters are done the product is prone to premature failure and is problem proned. It normaly takes 2-5 years an at least 2 different redesigns to fix the problem! Look at how long it took for them to fix the problems causeing 3.1,3.4 and 3.8 upper and lower manifold leaks. Look at the piston slap and oil consuption issue with Gen III engine. Look at the oil consuption issues with the N.Stars and all of the seal leaks! Look at all the carbon issues with 4.3 CPI equiped trucks!
Their is never a time when an unproven design makes it in to production! If all systems are egineered and tested then their are no unknown design flaws. That means that someone in marketing is gambleing on the law of averages!! They are hopeing that few enough people will complain, force a buy back or have failure under warranty for it to cost the company any significant money. When these guys are wrong it cost the company a small fortune. Seems to me that in the long run it is cheaper to do it right the first time! It is a lot cheaper to build a good reputation then to try to repair a bad one!
Luckily we have import competition to force a slow improvment in the quality of domestic products. If not for import threat we would still be forced to buy what ever Ford and GM but out.
I think that the new modular 3.6 high content V6 is going to be a turning point for GM's powertrains if they execute it's design properly!! They need a realy smooth robust transmission to put behind it! THe high content 3.6 is their new OHC with variable intake runner length, variable valve timeing, elastomer bonded ballancer drive gear, 32 bit motorola processor, 4 valves per cylinder, teflon main seals ............
If you look at a well built blue printed GM engine built with top notch aftermarket parts you often see a huge reduction in wear as compared to an OEM engine. This of course is under identical use. The reason for this is too fold. One the clearance are being checked repeatedly, the tolerance stacking is less of an issue because each part is being checked and rechecked and matched against it's mateing parts. Two the parts being used are usualy much higher in quality and materials. The company makeing that high performance part is not worried about $.0001 of a penny per part. Their reputation is more important!
P.S. Their is no oil on the planet that can make up for mechanical short comeings! Their are oils that will perform better then other oils in every application though! If their was an oil that could solve piston slap or high copper every LS1 owner would use it!
[ February 22, 2004, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
Their is never a time when an unproven design makes it in to production! If all systems are egineered and tested then their are no unknown design flaws. That means that someone in marketing is gambleing on the law of averages!! They are hopeing that few enough people will complain, force a buy back or have failure under warranty for it to cost the company any significant money. When these guys are wrong it cost the company a small fortune. Seems to me that in the long run it is cheaper to do it right the first time! It is a lot cheaper to build a good reputation then to try to repair a bad one!
Luckily we have import competition to force a slow improvment in the quality of domestic products. If not for import threat we would still be forced to buy what ever Ford and GM but out.
I think that the new modular 3.6 high content V6 is going to be a turning point for GM's powertrains if they execute it's design properly!! They need a realy smooth robust transmission to put behind it! THe high content 3.6 is their new OHC with variable intake runner length, variable valve timeing, elastomer bonded ballancer drive gear, 32 bit motorola processor, 4 valves per cylinder, teflon main seals ............
If you look at a well built blue printed GM engine built with top notch aftermarket parts you often see a huge reduction in wear as compared to an OEM engine. This of course is under identical use. The reason for this is too fold. One the clearance are being checked repeatedly, the tolerance stacking is less of an issue because each part is being checked and rechecked and matched against it's mateing parts. Two the parts being used are usualy much higher in quality and materials. The company makeing that high performance part is not worried about $.0001 of a penny per part. Their reputation is more important!
P.S. Their is no oil on the planet that can make up for mechanical short comeings! Their are oils that will perform better then other oils in every application though! If their was an oil that could solve piston slap or high copper every LS1 owner would use it!
[ February 22, 2004, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
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