What Do You Think About Long-Term (20+ Years) Ownership Potential Of Modern Cars?

My 2011 Mazda6 with manual transmission has everything I want. It has an AUX port to plug in my phone for music, AC, power windows and locks. It’s simple yet has the creature comforts I want. I had a new 2020 Mazda6 loaner from the dealer and I don’t like the electronic steering - feels like driving a boat to me. I’m also a cheap Luddite.
 
dishdude said:
$400? It would cost more to replace a broken CD player in a 2002 car. I've found all the new tech in cars to be extremely reliable.
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Well the cost to replace the bad unit at the dealer is $1,500 - $1,800. And this is with the exact same design. The "bad" OEM part has not been redesigned so it will fail again in three - four years.
 
SeaJay said:
Keeping a older car on the road is a dollars and cents issue. How much does it cost to do that vs. the cost of getting newer with more modern features.

People today seem more than ever to want the latest and greatest and do not want to live without it. As a simple example, a large chunk of today's car drivers can not drive a car without a backup camera. They drive a rental or someone else's car with a backup camera and then get rid their own older car without a backup even thought it drives fine and doesn't cost a lot to maintain. They end up with a car with said backup camera plus a lot of other modern stuff that their own car is also missing. In a few years time, it is rinse and repeat.
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It’s not hard to add a backup camera to an older car. In many cases, it’s a nice bonus with an aftermarket double-DIN radio that can do CarPlay or Android Auto.

I retrofitted two newer cars to the newest infotainment and my car has a newish Pioneer deck that’s worlds better than the factory setup.

The iPad on your screen trend is stupid. Thankfully the aftermarket is following up and with some integration, people with those newer cars can install an aftermarket radio. Someone on the RAV4 forums installed a Pioneer 10” floating display radio in place of the factory Toyota system. The base radio was a single-DIN opening.
 
nthach said:
It’s not hard to add a backup camera to an older car. In many cases, it’s a nice bonus with an aftermarket double-DIN radio that can do CarPlay or Android Auto.

I retrofitted two newer cars to the newest infotainment and my car has a newish Pioneer deck that’s worlds better than the factory setup.

The iPad on your screen trend is stupid. Thankfully the aftermarket is following up and with some integration, people with those newer cars can install an aftermarket radio. Someone on the RAV4 forums installed a Pioneer 10” floating display radio in place of the factory Toyota system. The base radio was a single-DIN opening.
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When I did a Pioneer DD camera - the license plate camera failed in short order. Went to see a stereo guy and he points at a cop hiding (radar) 50’ away and said they are writing tickets for that type blocking some of the plate.
He strongly recommended the little cube type camera that RV’s use and it wound up not just more clear - but wider view and durable too …
The navigation was a black box plugin … worked great
 
Msmith68w said:
Like many of you, I don't turn wrenches for a living, but I do all of my own mechanical work, and consider myself a halfway decent mechanic. Given enough time, I can usually figure most anything out and get it fixed. However, I'm beginning to get the feeling that my ability to do this is coming to an end. As modern vehicle technology continues to accelerate at a rapid pace, I am starting to think that the notion of buying a modern car and keeping it long term is just off the table.

It's a bit strange because in one sense, cars are better built than ever. Drivetrain parts regularly exceed 200k miles with minimal issues, and the engines/transmissions/etc themselves aren't significantly different than the stuff we are used to. However, what is different is the electronics. All of my mechanical experience is with vehicles from the 90s and early 2000s, so I'm not afraid of EFI or anything like that. What frightens me about owning a modern car 20+ years from now are failures in systems like crash mitigation, automatic braking, steer by wire, etc. or even a more benign concern like the infotainment dying and leaving me without the ability to defrost the windshield because all the climate control is in the touchscreen. If you've got a 20 year old car and the infotainment dies...it will cost as much as the car is worth to get a new screen for it...and most new cars have 2 or more screens that are required to see critical information like oil pressure. Hell, the new fords don't even have gauges...just a screen, and the manufactures won't commit to keeping these systems updated for even 5 years, let alone 20+.

So in my estimation, despite drivetrains being more reliable than ever, and rust-proofing being better than ever...car have been really begun to be turned into appliances because of the electronics. As a result, I think that I am most likely going to build and maintain a fleet of late 90s/early 2000s cars that I know how to service and repair and feel comfortable with.

What do you guys think? I'd be interested in your points of view.
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I drive a 2001 Mercedes ML 320, after a few initial repairs when I purchased it (bad motor mounts and brakes), this truck has been the best vehicle I have ever driven. I paid $5000 Canadian pesos for it (about $10 USD at current exchange rates) at an estate stale.

I can dive like a car like the elite for the cost of a used Toyota Corolla.

Parts are widely available and contrary to public opinion the ML with the V6 is easy to work on as the engine bay was designed for a V8 (tons of room). The engine and drivetrain are bulletproof IF you change all of the fluids (forget the fantasy "lifetime fluids").

and the body is rust free, what is there not to love about this?
 
My 07 F150 is going on 14 years old. Thank God it has not had any very major problems so far (knock on wood!).
The only major problem l have had so far is to replace the a/c compressor. I plan on keeping it until the wheels fall off.
 
JHZR2 said:
More electronics might be a concern with infotainment.

But cars have had electronics in them since the 80s at least; lots of electronics at least since the late 90s/early 00s.

Some of it is obscene. When cars need to be coded to take replacement parts, that’s silly. But electronics, PCBs, circuits, chips, control units, all have been with us.

What makes one think we have gone backwards with design of electronics for longevity?
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Perception? I think many of us are worried about the what-if's. It likely will last forever. But one broken wire might be hours of labor to find the one broken wire. One blown 5 cent part might actually be huge money to replace the entire board.

Low risk times high cost winds up being back in the middle of the road, in terms of expected out of pocket costs. It may seem wiser to accept high risk times low cost instead, since, for long term ownership, one has to expect repairs. Take a guess at what could fail, and a guess what will likely fail, and build the budget around those assumptions.
 
supton said:
Perception? I think many of us are worried about the what-if's. It likely will last forever. But one broken wire might be hours of labor to find the one broken wire. One blown 5 cent part might actually be huge money to replace the entire board.

Low risk times high cost winds up being back in the middle of the road, in terms of expected out of pocket costs. It may seem wiser to accept high risk times low cost instead, since, for long term ownership, one has to expect repairs. Take a guess at what could fail, and a guess what will likely fail, and build the budget around those assumptions.
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Yeah but the one broken wire has been the case for decades now. I remember chasing a broken wire in the ECU harness of my 91 BMW. That is not new.

Going backwards to mechanical only vehicles, like my W123 Mercedes cars, is the only solution, and most wont accept that option either (would be fine by me).
 
Absolutely. I'm not sure, there might actually be less wires today. Still, perception is reality and all.

I have to chuckle, now that I'm driving vastly less a BEV might make sense for me, so for fun I was looking at online reviews. There was one link reviewing a bunch, and it mentioned that something had a 15" LCD, and my first thought was "why couldn't it have 15" tires instead?"
 
The broken wire analogy should be placed in perspective. The electronics in automobiles have greatly improved reliability and decreased the time for maintenance. Case in point, electronic ignition. Those of us who remember the old days of fiddling with points, condensers, rotors, distributor caps and so forth will know how electronic ignition changed everything and for the better.

Some things had to be improved. Early power windows for example were problematic. They are much better today.
 
My wife and I are 50 yo. I’m pretty sure our next “new vehicles” are going to come out of a custom shop versus a car dealer.

we both are over being forced to subsidize all the new tech crap the manufacturers claim everyone wants.
 
My mom just got rid of her 2007 Highlander with 228k miles. She replaced with 2021 Subaru Outback. I’m doing oil changes and all that, but I told my mom she had better get the longest extended warranty she can get. I knew when the headlights turned with the steering wheel I was in trouble. That and the big screen. It sure has made stuff expensive though. I was looking at new pickups and was totally taken aback by prices. I guess I’ll keep my 2013 until the wheels fall off.
 
Well, our Tundra is 20 years old and is perfect. Except for lousy mileage.
The Model 3 will probably need a battery in about 500K miles.
Who knows? Guess I'll find out.
 
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