What can beat a Civic?

[ekpolk]

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(...snip...)ekpolk was a little misleading in that a Prius isn't as fast as an Accord in a lot of situations. But who uses those for stock car racing anyway? Had that particular Prius driver been less of moron, he would have had no problem keeping up with traffic in the right lane where he should have been driving. That really is more of an idiot-driver story than a too-slow-to-keep-up-with-traffic story!

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OK, I can take that hit. As an attorney, I'm the last guy who should be lingusitically sloppy. That said, please understand that when I said, "in a car that accelerates like an I-4 automatic Camry or Accord", I really wasn't trying to say "exactly like". I did not intend to mislead anyone.* Rpn, as you suggest, the usual customers who buy these cars are drivers of a very similar feather, who generally flock together, if you know what I mean. I would venture to guess that a large bulk of Prius/I-4 Accord/I-4 Camry commuters may have never redlined their cars, and would be utterly oblivious to whatever slight overall performance margin exists between these cars.

*A few years back, either RT or CD had an I-4 Accord clocked at just over 10 sec for the 0-60 run -- but I can't find it on-line. Oh well... This is what I was recalling when I characterized the cars.

 

[brianl703]

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Had that particular Prius driver been less of moron, he would have had no problem keeping up with traffic in the right lane where he should have been driving. That really is more of an idiot-driver story than a too-slow-to-keep-up-with-traffic story!

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After driving about 2200 miles in Germany, I believe I have discovered what is is about the driver training that German drivers get that allows such high speeds on their motorways: They learn the difference between right and left.

 

[Al]

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Then we have to come to the price of a Civic. WAY too much for what your getting. I've seen well over 20k Civics BEFORE tax and such added.

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I think you get what you pay for in the Honda. All the options are pretty well included. Til you add all the options with Corolla the difference isn't that much. But what really kills Corolla (for me) is the lack of power and the lack of rear disc brakes. I just see more quality in the Civic. But that's just me.

 

[rpn453]

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I respectfully disagree. $34/month is ~$2000 over a typical 5-year ownership. If I can get away with not worrying about $2000 worth of frivolous lifecycle cost, then I certainly need not be shopping in the economy car segment anyway...

Too often we forget the 'economy' in economy cars... and for these small cars with economy roots, unfortunately when you deviate far from their economy roots, dollarwise, you end up with nothing but a poor deal, in my opinion.

JMH

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Most don't see a car, even one that's under $25,000, as simply point A to point B transportation though; myself included. I want comfortable seats, a good ride and handling, adequate power, a pleasing dash layout, air conditioning, a decent stereo, etc. If my total vehicle expenses over 5 years are $20,000 for a car I find painful to drive or $22,000 for a car I like to drive, I'll pay the extra 10%. Everyone has a different idea of what that pleasure is worth to them, and how much they need to pay to be satisfied, but why would anyone buy a new car if economy is truly the primary consideration anyway? My '87 Grand Am cost $1800 and returned $900 of that when it was written off 6 years and 80K miles later, with decent fuel economy, minimal repair costs, and $650 per year of full insurance coverage. Now that's getting closer to being a true economy car, and I still enjoyed driving it! It's actually kind of strange that I decided I needed a new car immediately after a good experience with such a used one, but I somehow convinced myself that the extra cost was acceptable when spread out over the 15 or 20 years that I planned on owning it.

 

[Matt89]

I have a 2006 Civic and really like it.

I rented a Corolla and really liked that car too. The only problem I had with it was that I couldn't seem to get a comfortable seating position...seemed like it needed a telescoping steering wheel. Maybe it had one and I just didn't figure it out, but that would have stopped me from getting one.

The seating position and seat design on the Civic, for me, is the best I've ever felt. Great support.

The speedometer took about 3 days to get used to. Don't even think about it anymore...especially since I spend the majority of my time looking OUT the windows. The view from the cockpit is great.

I hope never to test it personally, but one area where the Civic EXCELS is safety for a car of its size. I think they've even got an airbag for the cupholder. Standard.

I would certainly buy it all over again. I could have afforded an Accord but I intentionally got a smaller car to be more in touch with the road. Driving it is fun. Parking it anywhere is easy.

And to be honest, driving a small car makes me feel young again, like when I thought I was 'all that' in my first car - a 1992 Cavalier

 

[outersquare]

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blah blah blah

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since you didn't comprehend anything i wrote, i did your dirty work for you regarding the 300 ft-lbs and I found a prius dyno;

http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dynorunsmallcopy6eg.jpg

from here;

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=21038&hl=dyno&st=0

prius: 100 WHP, 115 FT-LBs at the wheels.

sorry

 

[The Critic]

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Then we have to come to the price of a Civic. WAY too much for what your getting. I've seen well over 20k Civics BEFORE tax and such added.

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I think you get what you pay for in the Honda. All the options are pretty well included. Til you add all the options with Corolla the difference isn't that much. But what really kills Corolla (for me) is the lack of power and the lack of rear disc brakes. I just see more quality in the Civic. But that's just me.

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Werd. Once ABS and Side Air Bags are added, the Corolla LE will cost within $500 of a Civic LX.

And with the EX Civic, you can get disc brakes.

I don't deny it. The Corolla DOES have some advantages over the Civic but they aren't enough for me to settle for a last-generation platform.

It isn't all about money, Bill. I do value your opinion, but I'm not after the cheapest possible route here. If I was, I'd be after a Sonata or a near new GM sedan.

Also, to ekpolk and outersquare, as interesting your exchange may be to each other, it's quite off-topic and I'd appreciate it if the two of you took it elsewhere.

Thanks.

 

[Auto-Union]

I heard that when TOYOTA saw the new Civic, they dumped their upcoming next-Gen Corolla for a totally redone design.
I grew up with TOYOTAs and Hondas then went to Euro cars. Right now (with a LOT of auto experience behind me) I like Honda better than TOYOTA. I wanted to restate that I think Jetta is awesome for the money, way beyond competitors up to the Accord.

 

[Tosh]

Is that up to, and including the Accord. Or just below the Accord?
Yes, wait for a diesel Jetta wagon, Critic.

 

[WOOCHOW]

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I drove a new Civic and am happy with my Corolla.

Hated the dumb fake windwing windows which will cause problems with the door seals in the later life of the car.

what is a fake windowing window? I don't think my car has these; or are they an option?

Hated the Dash and digital speedo.

Look under the hood and Honda needs to learn to have some working room around an engine like Toyota. (its packed in there)

Then we have to come to the price of a Civic. WAY too much for what your getting. I've seen well over 20k Civics BEFORE tax and such added.

After my 1998 Accord and my Dads 2001 Civic, I could not even get my wife to look at a Honda when we were looking for another car.

After 61k with our Corolla, I'll have to say I've very happy. 2 years old, almost 43 mpg AVERAGE MPG since new, never been back to the Stealership for anything and it's running great. All for under 14.5k out the door.

Could not find a 2005 Civic with A/C under $16.7k. Could not find any Civic for $14.5k out the door.. And that was 2 years ago, I know know impossible.

And you can find a Corolla LE for $16.5k out the door with no hassles. If you want 5 speed (good luck, most 5 speeds are CE) then take off a grand.

Just my findings...

Take care, Bill

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[WOOCHOW]

sorry for the last post, it's early. what is a fake windwing window?

 

[Bill in Utah]

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sorry for the last post, it's early. what is a fake windwing window?

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Fake windwing window photo (the best I could find at 2am...)

The door opens around this window. So the door seal is going around it.

Take care, Bill

 

[ekpolk]

by Outersquare:

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i did your dirty work for you regarding the 300 ft-lbs;

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Yeah right -- whatever... Still waiting for something like meaningful facts from you -- you know, actual numbers you can compare to one another. Being an engineer, you should be able to grasp that idea. Still waiting for you to drive one of these cars that you know so much about. . .

 

[Cutehumor]

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When my 2001 Sentra extended warrranty runs out in 14 months I will be getting a Civic.

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why are you trading in your sentra? the full syn you've been running and uoa's on it are good.

 

[dbvettez06]

I also was looking at this car/corolla sonata etc.....Wanted a nice car for a daily driver, so, i bought an 07 Mustang GT.....And what a great choice that was

 

[obbop]

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No vehicle, Prius, Civic, or Peterbuilt, makes stupid decisions for it's driver.

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I don't think it'll be long before someone causes an accident and blames it on what their navigation system told them to do (if it hasn't already happened).

For example, if it tells them to "merge left" and they do so without looking and cause an accident.

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Incredible!!!!!!

Toss out some random numbers we can use on the Lottery ticket!!!!!

This morning, the day after that prescient posting was made, the radio news told of a German who followed the directions of his navigational device thingy, ignoring the "road closed" signs, driving around construction equipment and more barricades, not noticing the total lack of any other vehicles.... until finally impacting with the huge pile of gravel covering the under-construction roadway.

That guy would make a wonderful average American driver.

 

[deven]

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I heard that when TOYOTA saw the new Civic, they dumped their upcoming next-Gen Corolla for a totally redone design.
I grew up with TOYOTAs and Hondas then went to Euro cars. Right now (with a LOT of auto experience behind me) I like Honda better than TOYOTA. I wanted to restate that I think Jetta is awesome for the money, way beyond competitors up to the Accord.

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I agree with you Auto-Union, I just hope my dad doesnt read this, he is an engineer for Toyota!

 

[Bill in Utah]

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I also was looking at this car/corolla sonata etc.....Wanted a nice car for a daily driver, so, i bought an 07 Mustang GT.....And what a great choice that was

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Nice car.

So it gets 40 mpg like a Corolla or Civic and cost under $20k! (or $15k?)

Did not think so.

Apples and Oranges.

Take care, bill

 

[Mr. Boston]

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Polarizing indeed. I'm on the "can the 2.5 inch tall digital speedo be removed?" crowd.

I was passed by one doing 80 last weekend. I could see his speed 15 feet away for the split second he was alongside me.

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It reminds me of the first digital units Ford used back in the 80's.

 

[Al]

What is the best forum for Civic out there? I need to start reading up before I purchase in 14 months.