What are we to make of this?

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Lower class people climbing out of their class is not the norm. Can it happen sure. But it is much harder now as many middle class jobs are disappearing.

Also most people these days that are in the stock market are doing so to try and have a decent retirement on down the road. This is not really helping them in their current financial situation.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Lower class people climbing out of their class is not the norm. Can it happen sure. But it is much harder now as many middle class jobs are disappearing.
....


If you are my age (40's) or older and you haven't dug your way out of the lower class yet, it's probably you.

Lord knows I shot myself in the foot a few times on my way up and I still made it. If you just recently in the past few years started trying, yeah....it's going to be harder. I'll agree with you there.
 
I was lower middle class growing up and feel I am mid middle class now. I have worked 2 jobs to get by. My wife works. We have never made 6 figures or even close.

My point is the rags to riches stories are nice to hear but rare. Most people rarely stray much outside the zone they were raised in or know. And it is even harder now to reach that higher standard of living with the good and easy to find blue collar jobs disappearing. (Not all want or are cut out for white collar work)
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Lower class people climbing out of their class is not the norm. Can it happen sure. But it is much harder now as many middle class jobs are disappearing.

Also most people these days that are in the stock market are doing so to try and have a decent retirement on down the road. This is not really helping them in their current financial situation.



HUH??!?

I get your first point. When we sign so called "free trade agreements", with countries that pay their employees slave wages, no benefits and work them 16-20 hour days. Then, we tell our middle class workers they must compete with them, because it's now, a global economy. In effect, our standard of living is systematically being lowered, for the sake of world trade!

However, you are saying that people saving is effecting their bottom line right now??!? I dont get it. What do you think that people "deserve"? To live like the housewives or Orange county on $25k/yr? What financial situation do you think they should have different? Cellphone, cable TV, 18 MPG SUV, eight TVs, three computers AND a manicure and pedicure every week? Come on. The whole basis of saving is that one does without for the purpose of saving for the future. Whether in the stock market, savings bonds, or in a plain old savings account, that is what is the reasonable and responsible thing to do. I just dont understand where youre going with this comment. Saving is the right thing to do. I cant help it that all the other cash draws somehow effects "standard of living". Heck, on the surface, the Wal-mart effect has helped low wage earners apparent standard of living by letting them go and buy a cheap, chinese made widget for next to no money any time they need (at the expense of their neighbor's job, of course). All because we think we "deserve" it.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
I was lower middle class growing up and feel I am mid middle class now. I have worked 2 jobs to get by. My wife works. We have never made 6 figures or even close.

My point is the rags to riches stories are nice to hear but rare. Most people rarely stray much outside the zone they were raised in or know. And it is even harder now to reach that higher standard of living with the good and easy to find blue collar jobs disappearing. (Not all want or are cut out for white collar work)


People also put themselves into HORRIBLE situations. They get married, have a kid or two, and try to live the lifestyle that took their parents 30 years to achieve when they have been in the workforce just a few.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
My point is the rags to riches stories are nice to hear but rare. Most people rarely stray much outside the zone they were raised in or know.

and unfortunately more and more's "zone" is largely based on handouts.
Trickle up poverty.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2



People also put themselves into HORRIBLE situations. They get married, have a kid or two, and try to live the lifestyle that took their parents 30 years to achieve when they have been in the workforce just a few.


I agree 100%
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Lower class people climbing out of their class is not the norm. Can it happen sure. But it is much harder now as many middle class jobs are disappearing.

Also most people these days that are in the stock market are doing so to try and have a decent retirement on down the road. This is not really helping them in their current financial situation.




However, you are saying that people saving is effecting their bottom line right now??!? I dont get it. What do you think that people "deserve"? To live like the housewives or Orange county on $25k/yr? What financial situation do you think they should have different? Cellphone, cable TV, 18 MPG SUV, eight TVs, three computers AND a manicure and pedicure every week? Come on. The whole basis of saving is that one does without for the purpose of saving for the future. Whether in the stock market, savings bonds, or in a plain old savings account, that is what is the reasonable and responsible thing to do. I just dont understand where youre going with this comment. Saving is the right thing to do. I cant help it that all the other cash draws somehow effects "standard of living". Heck, on the surface, the Wal-mart effect has helped low wage earners apparent standard of living by letting them go and buy a cheap, chinese made widget for next to no money any time they need (at the expense of their neighbor's job, of course). All because we think we "deserve" it.


This was in response to Tempest saying lower wage people are getting the benefit of the market. Yes they are but not usually to increase their income but to save for retirement.
 
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