wear versus performance

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Hello Capri racer!

Can anyone explain why some tires sometimes seem to get better as they wear down while others get dramatically worse?

Virtually every 2nd tier cheaper type tire I have bough seems to dramatically lose performance as they wear down, can't recall a single one that didn't do this. The other side is it seems that my expensive name brands simply don't suffer this problem as severely.

I am speaking primarily about lateral traction not longitudinal, but the degradation affects all aspects of the tire's performance, just not equally.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Hello Capri racer!

Can anyone explain why some tires sometimes seem to get better as they wear down while others get dramatically worse?

Virtually every 2nd tier cheaper type tire I have bough seems to dramatically lose performance as they wear down, can't recall a single one that didn't do this. The other side is it seems that my expensive name brands simply don't suffer this problem as severely.

I am speaking primarily about lateral traction not longitudinal, but the degradation affects all aspects of the tire's performance, just not equally.


You mentioned lateral traction, but are we talking dry or wet?

Plus you mentioned other parameters. Could you identify those as well?
 
I've never had a set of tires that got better at anything as they wear...they all got worse. I can't prove this, but this is my theory; I believe tire performance deteriorates with age (all types of traction gets worse, and road noise increases) because as tires age, the rubber compound gets harder. When tires are new, they are soft and plyable...so much so thay even feel sticky to the touch...that stickiness starts going away rather quickly, probably due to mother nature's erosion process (UV rays, cold/hot temp changes, rain, snow salt, etc). Like I said, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
 
tires with more wear have better handling in dry conditions cause the tread doesn't squirm very much. So basically you get better performance from tires worn down to the wear bars then brand new ones. Now if it's wet outside then forget it. lol
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
tires with more wear have better handling in dry conditions cause the tread doesn't squirm very much.


That's never been the case for me...like I said, I've never had ANY performance catagory improve with age...
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
tires with more wear have better handling in dry conditions cause the tread doesn't squirm very much. So basically you get better performance from tires worn down to the wear bars then brand new ones. Now if it's wet outside then forget it. lol



This has been my experience also. Better dry handling, but in anything other than dry road, worn tires are worse handling. However some new tires have done just as well as smoother, older ones they just felt softer.

When getting new tires, I usually notice that they seem softer handling, due to the taller blocks squirming a bit under pressure.

I've never put performance tires on, usually it's all season.

Caveat: I've only installed Cooper, Goodyear and Michelin tires on my vehicles.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Hello Capri racer!

Can anyone explain why some tires sometimes seem to get better as they wear down while others get dramatically worse?

Virtually every 2nd tier cheaper type tire I have bough seems to dramatically lose performance as they wear down, can't recall a single one that didn't do this. The other side is it seems that my expensive name brands simply don't suffer this problem as severely.

I am speaking primarily about lateral traction not longitudinal, but the degradation affects all aspects of the tire's performance, just not equally.


You mentioned lateral traction, but are we talking dry or wet?

Plus you mentioned other parameters. Could you identify those as well?


With regards to lateral traction, dry only please.

Longitudinal in the dry also. I haven't had any tire get better in the wet with less tread (yet!). Lots of tires seem to get noisier and harder riding as well.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
tires with more wear have better handling in dry conditions cause the tread doesn't squirm very much. So basically you get better performance from tires worn down to the wear bars then brand new ones. Now if it's wet outside then forget it. lol



This has been my experience also. Better dry handling, but in anything other than dry road, worn tires are worse handling. However some new tires have done just as well as smoother, older ones they just felt softer.

When getting new tires, I usually notice that they seem softer handling, due to the taller blocks squirming a bit under pressure.

I've never put performance tires on, usually it's all season.
...


+1
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Hello Capri racer!

Can anyone explain why some tires sometimes seem to get better as they wear down while others get dramatically worse?

Virtually every 2nd tier cheaper type tire I have bough seems to dramatically lose performance as they wear down, can't recall a single one that didn't do this. The other side is it seems that my expensive name brands simply don't suffer this problem as severely.

I am speaking primarily about lateral traction not longitudinal, but the degradation affects all aspects of the tire's performance, just not equally.


Sorry to take so long to respond, but since the question was about differences, I wanted to think over what all might be going on - and I came up with 2 things:

1) Anitoxidants and antiozidants. - AO's for short. These are chemicals that attract oxygen and ozone so they don't attack the rubber. These are incredibly expensive and I would think that less costly tires would be inclined to use AO's more sparingly.

2) Sophisticated vulcanization techniques. I am not a rubber chemist so I am out of my element here, but I am aware that there are several techniques used to cross-link the long chain rubber molecules. One of them is using sulfur, but there are some more sophisticated ways - and I would think ways that are less prone to degradation over time. This, of course, requires research - and while the techniques would be transferable as chemists move from company to company, I would also think it would take time to re-develop the technology at a different locale.

Just an FYI. Each manufacturing plant seems to have its own set of parameters that influence what works and what doesn't. I am aware that differences in mixing machinery change the way the recipes need to be written in order to get similar results, but they are never exactly the same.

I am also aware that different companies approach rubber mixing in different ways and with different suppliers, so it shouldn't be a surprise to find that apparently simliar tires don't perform the same. I know that wet traction varies around the country and you can test different tires and get different rank orders.

I suspect this is why many tires on Asian car manufacturers have so much traction issues. They are not testing on pavement in the US - which seems to be different than in Asia.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Excellent. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I can certainly believe pavement quality/type/condition is a HUGE factor.


True...especially on the coral-mixed pavement in Florida...it's like riding on sandpaper...don't expect full lifetime treadwear in Florida...not to mention the added year 'round heat...
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
tires with more wear have better handling in dry conditions cause the tread doesn't squirm very much. So basically you get better performance from tires worn down to the wear bars then brand new ones. Now if it's wet outside then forget it. lol


This is true. It is why some road racers shave brand new tires.
 
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