War on Drugs a massive failure.

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I don't think these drugs do anybody any good and I don't know if it would help or not to legalize some drugs. But I do remember the example of China. Many years ago the British were actually growing opium in India and selling it to the Chinese. At one time it was estimated that about a third of the population of China was addicted. In fact the Boxer Rebellion War was fought partially because of the drugs being sold to China. China did not really recover from the opium problem until the Chinese Communists took over and forced the end of the opium traffic and use.

Today I look at all the people using Meth and I just can't understand it. It is obvious that it destroys lives.

We certainly need better drug education and reabilitation and all I know is we have to keep trying to stop at least the most dangerous stuff. Maybe legalize the pot.

There really does not seem to be any good answers. Just more and more wasted lives.
 
The current economy, the number of people living off of others, little to no control of our borders, low patriotism, and now talk of legalizing recreational pharmaceuticals.

Makes me think about the fall of rome, most likely from within.
 
There was a time in American history when a lot of these drugs were legal. Even opium, heroin, morphine, etc. There were a lot of addicted people and a lot of destroyed lives.

I think meth is one of the worst drugs today. I look at these people destroying themselves (you can see it happening) and I ask myself-Can't they stop? They have to be able to see what it does to them.

I can't see legalizing the really bad stuff. Heck, that was actually true in the past and it certainly did not work. I can maybe see legalizing pot.

I guess all a person can do is try to keep your own children from using this stuff.
 
The question is if legalizing anything will actuall do much of anything or if people that are going to be self-destructive just are going to stay self-destructive.

My wife grew up in an area where drinking was legal at 18 vs 21. Kids still got drunk, still crashed cars, still paralyzed themselves. Kids went to college and still partied and got drunk. The fact that it was accessible and less of a big deal didnt much overcome the fact that people were going to undertake the activities that they were.

They say pot is a gateway drug. I see the benefits of legalizing it and taxing it, I don't see the change in peoples' behavior when going to other drugs. Sure, someone could go to the corner store and buy pot cigarettes and never have to see a shady "dealer". But is that going to prevent much, or is some friend who has discovered whatever going to induce others into trying something else for "fun", and then people start the self-destructive behaviors anyway?

Would legalizing pot do away with the farmers and dealers, or would some of the other stuff just become more heavily produced, cheaper, and thus more accessible in other ways.

I agree that the WOD has been a failure. You get people who wont do drugs because of what it can do to their future, and then you get people who think they know better than the rest, and then you get people who just dont care. I don't see how that is going to change. And, judging by how addicted people are to prescription drugs amongst other things, I dont see how human self control allows for optimal decision-making.

I almost think that drugs should be a way to thin the herd at this point. You decide to use and get hooked, guess what? No insurance or taxpayer money will go to help you, and doctors wont treat unless there are greenbacks on the table. It's all about the decisions that one makes, and "immaturity", "depresion", "bad place in life", "relationship issues", etc., only goes so far as an argument, sorry. The physics of reality is what it is.
 
I just wish they would legalize weed because that's not a drug in my mind. They need to let all the people in jail strictly because of weed go free and they need to stop harassing otherwise innocent people about it.

I had a pretty wild youth, and let me tell you it's not the guys selling/using weed that are the problem. It's the coke/heroin/meth/crack folks. Guys that sell and/or smoke weed aren't any different than you or I. In fact, there are probably one or several that you live down the street from or work with. You'd never know. People from every social stratum and age group, people that go to church with you, people who hold positions of great responsibility smoke some weed. We were talking to this well to do, very conservative retired couple in their 60s the other day who we've known for some time. Sure enough, we're sitting in their back yard just this past weekend talking and the woman pulls out a joint talking about, "you mind if I smoke?" Of course, I didn't. It was a little surprising, but not too much because I've had that experience several times. (And no, for the record, she didn't melt into the couch or put on a bob marley record or start talking about Totinos Pizza Rolls. All [censored] did not break loose.)

People who do other drugs also smoke weed. But you might as well say they also drink water. It's a different world. If you've ever met a coke, crack or meth dealer you knew it. You knew something was bad about that guy. Those guys are shady and weird. And, yeah, they'll do pretty much anything to get the money they're owed. That's why their clientèle are always stealing car stereos and getting shot breaking into homes. The hard drug people are who should be taking up space in our prisons. I never did much of those drugs outside of experimentation, but I had friends that got hooked pretty good. Those drugs are illegal for a good reason.
 
I am in the "legalize it" camp. It's just ridiculous to classify weed in the same category as heroin.

Costs us bazillions and does nothing but put ordinary people in prison.
 
If you watch those "Jail", ER, Cops etc... the vast majority are in there because of alcohol related. Never seen someone arrested because they smoked too much weed and wanted to fight everything and everybody. I won't even attend events where alcohol is served and refuse to be around heavy drinkers.
 
The big issue is that once someone consumes enough of a "product" that it impairs their ability to function responsibly in public, then it obviously becomes an issue for the public.

It not illegal to drink, as long as you are over a certain age.
Its not illegal to get drunk in your house, or the house of your friend, as long as you stay there.

Everything changes once you go outside that building, into the public, where other people have to deal with you. I certainly don't want to deal with drunk or stoned people while I'm going to McDonald's to get a bite to eat. Heck, I hated dealing with them back when I worked at McDonald's so many years ago.

But that's the problem.
One they get stoned, and drunk, their ability to make responsible decisions gets flushed down the toilet. And trying to tell me that allowing people to legally get baked out of their mind and drive around in traffic should be allowed is just plain stupid.

You just want a reason to be able to legally grow, buy, and consume pot, and not be harassed about it. I just want to be able to live my life without some other idiot ruining my day with their stupid actions affecting my peace and quiet.

I work in Boulder, CO, and loathe having to drive home during rush hour on April 20th every year because of the morons who run around town acting like idiots. Mostly its college students, but there are huge amounts of adults mixed in, who like to be publicly stupid, right along with the kids.

BC.
 
Plenty of asses who are not stoned, I've met both.

I must agree that for many folks a dose of alcohol greatly increases the "I want to start something" effect!

All the usual laws about driving and such would still have to be valid. I just want to take the criminal element out of biz and get the Gov some more tax money!
 
My first hand observations and understanding from working against, and layer with addicts; the first where they were a significant (though not necessarily majority) of people I dealt with in Loss Prevention, and then later worked with as part of a multi-disciplinary treatment team in an inpatient substance abuse and addictions program:

First, I don't subscribe to the theory that classical marijuana is a gateway drug; I call that form 'classical' because its often not what's on the street now, and therefore not what the newest studies are often based on when it comes to pot. It was long believed marijuana, unlike tobacco or alcohol, was not even physically addictive. Today the research has tended toward the other direction, but having taken some issue with the credibility of it due to the stuff often added before it hits the streets, as well as political motives tainting the findings.

One of the more common additives is methamphetamine. Methamphetamine is cheap to produce, extremely addictive, and often transparent to the user - even after smoking pot that's been cut with meth.

I therefore don't believe its a gateway drug, do believe its far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco (both legal), and further, as part of the growing acceptance within addictions of harm reduction strategies, favor decriminalizing it. Much better would be if the government were to legalize it, regulate it (thereby keeping the additives like meth out of it), and tax it. That income could then be used toward other substance abuse initiatives.

As to other illicit drugs, I don't favor any move toward legalization. I do favor diversion of end users away from the criminal justice system and into treatment; that said, my experience working with addicts has taught me that they do not stop unless the motivation comes from within somehow. Therefore a diversion program has to be aimed at motivating the addict to enter and complete rehab with some coercion, but of the carrot and stick variety. The carrot could be that if he enters rehab voluntarily, then criminal proceedings are stayed upon successful completion. The stick is that if he's discharged (voluntarily or otherwise), or fails to remain clean for some mandatory period, then he goes to court.

The mandatory period should be fairly short as too long is self-defeating, since a lengthy forced period of abstinence will seem insurmountable and is doomed to fail. The highest relapse rate occurs very early, therefore a more productive period might be just a week or two out of rehab. This also has to be a progressive system where punitive measures are introduced to ensure that he doesn't get his two weeks in clean and then relapses.

At any rate, I see the criminal justice role as a minor one for users as the bulk of effort and resources should be put toward education, rehabilitation, and sober living type programs and other forms of support for recovering addicts.

By taking the emphasis of criminalizing users, it not only frees up LE and justice system resources, it also, and most importantly, doesn't condemn them to live on crime, since a record for possession (without intent to distribute) dooms hundreds of thousands of people to live on the fringe, with very slim prospects for gainful employment. That as fact, and that as the knowledge that comes from a possession arrest now, creates a self-defeating cycle for them as people, and us as society who pay the price on many levels.

For trafficking, they need to stop wasting time and resources on petty pot traffickers and put the focus not only on dealers, but particularly on those who peddle to minors and those who sell harder drugs (which now is anything other than pot, though barring legalization the line is becoming more blurred as dealers increasingly add other substances to increase the high and create physical dependency).

Anyway that's my point of view, backed not only by education, but by experience in enforcement where I dealt with these individuals regularly when they committed theft, and later when I worked with them as part of an impatient treatment team where I followed not only the research, but most illuminating, had thousands of discussions with them about their backgrounds, attitudes and ambitions, lifestyle, and their own addiction from their point of view (history, usage, periods of abstinence or harm reduction, obstacles to recovery, etc).

As it stands now, the war on drugs is a total and complete failure of epic proportions. It will be regarded as such by future historians, and the approach has to change if any results are to come. Right now all it creates is a larger prison population (crime school), a snowballing problem that has done just that and still is doing that, and a massive tax payer drain and drain on society as a whole.

-Spyder
 
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I think the number 1 reason why marijuana is not decriminalized is because of the alcohol lobby/industry. Alcohol and marijuana are probably the 2 most used recreational psychoactive substances and alcohol has a huge monopoly and lobbying power against legalizing marijuana. That's a tough nut to crack.

I don't think hard narcotics like opiates and cocaine should be legal, but marijuana? COME ON. Putting people in jail for smoking or selling weed is asinine. Jails are overloaded with petty marijuana users or sellers. If the police didn't have to put so much effort into policing marijuana, perhaps they could move on to more important concerns.
 
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Mary Jane is way more potent now than it was even 10 years ago from what I have read. Now laced with meth or who knows what, not considered gateway? Sorry but if it has illicit content in it...its already past the gate.

All of these substances impair judgement & escape reality all addictive.

Problem remains...these reality escapees do "their thing" (totally selfish act) and everyone pays for it many times over.

If there was open season on all drug dealers of all ranks, that would certainly give pause to those in the industry (and those thinking of getting into the business) down a notch or two.
 
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Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Now laced with meth or who knows what


That is a direct result of it being criminalized and the resultant black market.

If you know people, you're not going to get meth laced MJ.
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If you're buying from some guy on a street corner in the projects, then yea...
 
Regardless of who you know, you're never 100% sure of what you are consuming unless you produced it yourself. I am real glad I choose a life based on 100% reality.

You have to wonder how incredibly stupid people are when you tell them all the real consequences of drugs yet they still take them.
 
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Originally Posted By: Smokescreen

You have to wonder how incredibly stupid people are when you tell them all the real consequences of drugs yet they still take them.


People have used psychoactive substances since the dawn of mankind. It's a historical fact. Calling them stupid does no good. Calling for an open season on drug dealers?
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And you claim to live in reality?
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How'd prohibition work out? How's the war on drugs working out now?

The reality is, people will use drugs and alcohol. Always have, always will. It's up to society to best mitigate and deal with that REALITY, because it'll never go away, especially when money is to be made.
 
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Mary Jane is way more potent now than it was even 10 years ago from what I have read. Now laced with meth or who knows what, not considered gateway? Sorry but if it has illicit content in it...its already past the gate.

All of these substances impair judgement & escape reality all addictive.

Problem remains...these reality escapees do "their thing" (totally selfish act) and everyone pays for it many times over.

If there was open season on all drug dealers of all ranks, that would certainly give pause to those in the industry and those thinking of getting into the business down a notch or two.

So you've never smoked pot? Never been at a party where people are? Like others have said, far more professional folks than you'd ever guess do smoke up regularly without costing society anything. It's basically like alcohol, used responsibly there are no issues, other than its illegal which may or may not fund organized crime. Make it legal and regulated, its no different than alcohol IMHO.
 
Never smoked, nor drank...ever. Not a holier than thou argument. I just choose to be 100% aware, all the time, and have all my brain cells intact that's all.

There are very few people planet who can use these substances responsibly, the moment you are impaired there are issues unless you are in a room all by yourself until the effects are over. I supposed if a driver high on MJ or alcohol slammed into you and/or family, opinion would change on the "cost". Though I have never these kids of things happen to me directly, nor do I want it to.
 
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I think the number 1 reason why marijuana is not decriminalized is because of the alcohol lobby/industry. Alcohol and marijuana are probably the 2 most used recreational psychoactive substances and alcohol has a huge monopoly and lobbying power against legalizing marijuana. That's a tough nut to crack.


Now that they perform blood tests DWI/DUI suspects, I think they should.
Got THC in your bloodstream? You're being charged with DUI.

That can put a lot of people to work in probation departments. All those nursing asst types that went to whatever vocational school can be drug screeners for all the probationers. And as soon as we find a non-invasive way to test for THC, we can put ignition interlocks on their cars. All at probationer's own expense.

...and no, No you do not drive better when you have been smoking weed. You absolutely do not. If getting high really does make you a better driver, you shouldn't be driving at all. You are not a good enough driver to operate a vehicle if getting impaired makes you better.
 
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
There's this guy named PopRivit, you should have a contest with him to see who is the holiest.

Maybe these two are Straight Edge?
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I think the number 1 reason why marijuana is not decriminalized is because of the alcohol lobby/industry. Alcohol and marijuana are probably the 2 most used recreational psychoactive substances and alcohol has a huge monopoly and lobbying power against legalizing marijuana. That's a tough nut to crack.

That is one possibility, I think another is that the government can't come up with a good way of taxing it.
 
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