Want to extend the life of tranny-gurus enter!

[roman]

Hello everybody!! In a quest to extend the life of the transmission in my car, I have decided to cool it, and offer it better filtration….but to tell you the truth; I have no idea if what I want to do is correct. The car is a 99 Grant Prix GT with the 4t65e transmission. It has 70,000 km on it and is original. So far to my knowledge, it has only had one pan and filter change at apx 60,000 km, and I replaced with Castrol ATF, non synthetic. Now, I would like to get 350,000 km trouble free out of the transmission so here is what I though I should do. I will install a remote transmission filter (SUM-G4980) or a dual remote filter (PRM-1223). I figure this will increase my filtering ability as I do not believe the stock filter does that great of a job, and with the dual setup, will increase the amount of ATF. I would then install a transmission cooler before the stock cooler or after, depending on everybodies opinion here. The cooler I was looking at is a BMM-70268.
My main concern is not having adequate flow of oil to the transmission, and there being too much restriction. My second concern is installation difficulty, mainly something coming loose and losing fluid. I do change my own oil, and have replaced the brakes with a problem, bled the breaks without issues, ect.

Now, the details of the driving style of the car is as follows.
It sees 90% city use.
The trips are rather short, maybe 10-15 minutes at most.
We live in Ontario, near Toronto.
When driving, the 1-2 shift occurs from 3-4 thousand rpm. And the following shifts typically see sub 3 k shifts.
I drive the car, and I like doing WOT runs every now and then. However, I try to not peel out or do smoke shows.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thank-you

ps....those part numbers are from summitracing.com

 

[pitzel]

Any ECU adjustments you can make?

200k-250k out of the that transmission shouldn't be a problem if you keep the fluid in decent shape, especially in Toronto. Fluid maintenance and refraining from blatent abuse should take care of the vast majority of operational reliability certainty involving the transmission.

Next pan drop, make sure to use Dexron III - H spec or its successor fluid.

It is my personal opinion that spending a bunch of money on extra filters and modifications will only introduce additional points of failure and will not necessarily increase reliability significantly compared to the stock configuration. Historically speaking, GM is one of the most reliable manufacturers of automatic transmissions for cars.

 

[JHZR2]

Yes, read the quote (sourced from ZR2.com) that I added to this thread:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001802

I agree with what he has to say from personal experience. Of course I was always tought to drive gently, and so dont jackrabbit stat and do other stuff thats hard on a transmission. If the car is driven hard, life may suffer regardless of fluid changes, cooling, etc.

Adding lots of coolers and filters in what (I believe) is an already pretty tightly packed hood just adds more sources for leaks, and difficulty repairing them, should they occur.

JMH

 

[jorton]

Get an oversize pan with cooling fins, and switch to Mobil 1 ATF. Change the fluid and filter every 30 - 50,000 miles.

Joe

 

[cousincletus]

I was told by a mechanic at a transmission shop that the GM front wheel drive automatic is the best one made regardless of price. I would use Amsoil Universal ATF and change every 30,000 miles with the filter.

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jorton:
Get an oversize pan with cooling fins, and switch to Mobil 1 ATF. Change the fluid and filter every 30 - 50,000 miles.

Joe

---

Any general reccomendations for a good oversize pan? Im not really concerned with one for the trans in question, as I dont own one, but Im sure others certainly are. Any suggestions in general of comapnies to look for? I like mag hytec stuff, but its super expensive...
Summit racing stuff seems OK in price, but if the thermal transfer isnt great, youre not really saving anything.

JMH

 

[ATS-V]

The 4t65e transmission is already on the brink on it's torque rating. If abused it will fail, how soon depends on may factors.

I think the additional filter is a good idea, although I'm not sure it's worth it regarding installation and possible leaks developing down the road. I also think that a cooler in this vehicle is pointless, not sure where you live but it's not necessary unless operating in extreme heat (ie. TX, FL). I have the same tranny (HD model) and don't have a cooler with 108k miles. I have done a couple of pump and fills and at 95k dropped the pan and replaced the filter.

May people say the synethic in this tranny is a no no, I'm split on this one. I have used Castrol Dextron III up to this point as it seems to be one of the better ATF's.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

A-RX did amazing things to the shift quality and smoothness of operation of our 4T65E-HD. And Red Line D4 ATF improved it even further and lowered metal debris on magnet. I would recommend this oil at a MAX drain and refil interval of 30k miles for these trannies. I am sure Specialty Formulations tranny fluid is excellent also and I would be using it if I didn't have a stash of RL already.
An oil cooler is not needed, I have monitored tranny fluid temps closely with a scanner.
Just ARX it and run short drain intervals with high quality synth fluid.

 

[mechtech]

I'd increase the cooling of the ATF, and not worry about particulates as much. Heat is the #1 killer of auto transmissions. Keep it cool, and the rest will fall into place nicely.

 

[unDummy]

You'll have electronic solenoid failure before 300k anyway!

The single full flow filter is enough. Plus, its 3/4" thread allows the use of a larger filter(ph8a/ph977a) if wanted. And, with a bypass, flow isn't an issue.

Your short trips will be torture. Change the fluid regularly.
Use a synthetic ATF. Buy a drain plug kit for the ATF pan(makes life easy).

I don't see the need for additional cooling. Yep, I usually recommend an ATF cooler for everyone, but it'll be overkill up north.
Invest in an ATF temp gauge for peace of mind.

Get a shift kit or upgraded valvebody to make up for some of the OEM issues.

 

[eljefino]

If you're doing 10-15 minute trips, I bet the radiator coolant never gets up to temp. Even if your engine does the thermostat has just barely cracked open to let the radiator warm up. Therefore your built-in tranny cooler will work very efficiently.

Can you get a trans oil temp out of a scan tool?

If you could reflash your ECM, can you lower the temp the rad cooling fans come on? That'd be a first step for keeping the whole powertrain happy if I've mis-estimated your drive cycle and the rad does get up to temp.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

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Originally posted by eljefino:
Can you get a trans oil temp out of a scan tool?

---

Yes I am using (and recommend) Auto Enginuity with GM Enhanced parameters on a Palm Tungsten T.

 

[roman]

Regarding the plumbing issues. What if I were to do this using AN fittings and line? (thats what they are called right?)

I wish i could get a bigger pan, but noone o know of makes them for the 4t65e. If you do know someone please PM me, I along with many other Grand Prix owners would greatly appreciate it!

So I should do just a single full flow instead of a dual? If i do go with the AN fittings, would it not make sense to get the dual anyways since price is the same?

IS a shiftkit not too late for this transmission? All of those 70,000km were pretty much stop and go traffic.

A trans-temp gauge is definetly in the plans

Thank-you

 

[deepsquat]

If you really want to go with a cooler an a duel filter ..go for it! ...heck i have a bypass filter on my nissan Altima ..200000 miles on the engine and 120000 on the tranny ....heat is what kills trannys ...but dirty fluid kills everything!...go ahead put a filter or 2 on ther...but i would also do like undummy said and install a drain plug kit in the pan ..this allows for easy drain...none of this 50000 mile drain crap! drain the oil once or twice a year ...it is only going to be 3-4 quarts at a time ...crack the plug ..while it drains into a pan you change your add on filter ...put your plug back in and add 4 quarts of new fluid ...what could be easier to get your tranny to last 300000 miles?

 

[roman]

Does anyone knwo the approximate cost of usuing AN lines and fittings vs. just the regulars hoses and hose clamps? Is it even worth the cost difference?

Yes, i agree with you that i should have a manual gear box, but in truth this is my moms car ( i am 17). As much as i do want a gearbox, the car i am getting; a 1987 buick LeSabre w/350,000 km is also a auto and wiull be my dd while im in unversity. I am trying to not go hard on the GP, but it is hard, being a teenager. But in all honesty, i dont do it often, maybe once a month i might peel away from a parking lot.

So now the general aggreement seems to be to add a cooler to the car, but should i do this before or after the in-radiator cooler?

A drain plug is definetly in the works...I recieved a mouth fool of transfluid before droppign the pan

Thank you
Roman

 

[Ryan00TJ]

My mother's 4T65E in her 98 Monte Carlo died at 107K miles. Solenoid failure. I talked to the trans rebuilder and he said he routinely see's them fail between 60-90K miles. He also mentioned it's a very cost cut tranny with lots of flaws in it's design that don't go well with longevity.

 

[FazerZ]

The 4T65E will not last 300,000 miles no matter what the additional cooling you put in place. They have some significant cost cutting put in place and have not been designed to last anywhere near this service life.

However, you increase your chances quite a bit with additional cooling. Jack rabbit starts and lots of WOT driving will bring on premature failure. Drive smart or get a manual box (another car).

The 4T65E has had a pretty patchy service history so far, so it's not the most reliable unit Hydramatic currently makes, but every year they seem to improve. Most 4T65Es have a hard part (stripped hubs, worn VB, solenoids) failure before 150K.

I recommend you add the additional cooling, it's worth it.

DH

 

[Vstrom]

Here is what I do- I change the trans fluid on E4OD in a Ford PSD and in my Honda Pilot every time I change oil

The Honda plug drops 3 qts, at the cost the dealer charges for fluid it is about $12. So an oil change for the motor and a partial change for the trans costs me about the same DIY as a trip to Jerky Lube just for the motor.

Same with the Ford except it drops a little over 4 qts and uses even cheaper $1.50 fluid.

This way I'm continuosly renewing additives and getting some dirty trans oil out every 4-5K miles.

Necessary? I don't know but it makes me feel good

 

[Ken2]

ATF needs to be normally warm, 145-160°F in the pan, not cold.

The Magnefine filters advertised on this page, or the similar SPX Filtran filters, are easy to install and made for transmissions. Just cut the cooler line and insert the filter. Renew it each time you change the fluid.

I'd use your choice of PAO synthetic Dexron-III ATF and change every 50,000 miles. GM is only issuing licenses for Dexron-III(H), so that's all you'll find unless you get some old stock. If you choose a conventional ATF, I'd add a bottle of Lubegard red supplement. An Auto-Rx cleaning of the transmission before the next fluid replacement would be smart.


Ken

 

[99]

Lots of good info here. If the car were mine, I'd put a aux trans cooler on it inline with the factory radiator cooler. A deep trans pan would be another thing I'd put on to increase fluid capacity, but I doubt anyone makes one for your trans. Other than that, run the best Dexron fluid you can and change it every 30K max and don't beat on it. Everything else is out of your hands and up to father time.