VP Racing J20A Utility Tractor Fluid, Kioti LB2204

[RandR10]

Okay, so I've been chasing my tail on this for a bit to the point that I'm almost ready to redesign the hydraulic system, but I think I may just have an issue with the fluid now that we're getting summer temps here. I've got a tractor that calls for the Kubota UDP fluid. It's a rebadged L245DT that Kioti sold as one of their first models in '86. Both tractors originally called for SAE 80, then the spec was updated to UDP by Kubota, which I believe is an SAE 20/ISO-68 oil. Kioti does not support these tractors any longer, so no input from them on what to use now. When I put the above mentioned VP J20A in, which claims UDP compatibility, the system won't work at cold temps, either very slow at sub-60*F, or when at freezing temps, it won't work at all. When it warms up, function is fine, but in very cold weather this can take several minutes before the loader will even budge. Noted on the tractor supply website they say it is an SAE 20 or ISO-68 viscosity, so that checks out vs. the old school UDP. I would think that this should have better cold weather flow performance than an SAE 80 oil, but based on some reading I've been doing here, maybe not?

I still haven't ruled out that this is just a poorly designed hydraulic system. The little hydraulic pump driven off the back of the injection pump powers the rear lift, the loader, and the steering. Steering is supplied through a priority valve before anything else gets fluid. The hydraulic fluid is shared with the gearbox. The steering works 100% of the time perfect, even when cold. It's just the loader and 3 point lift that take a while to respond when cold. Do you think a multi-viscosity oil like a JD J20C or the lighter Kubota UDT2 spec would fix this issue? I think the J20C is 10w-30 and UDT2 is AW-32/SAE 10. Thanks in advance for any insight. It's working fine for now with the warm weather, but I'd like to have this sorted by this coming fall.

 

[Cujet]

Possibly a synthetic lower viscosity fluid, with a low pour point, and high viscosity index.

I was just talking about the old M1, ATF and how it was good for motorcycle forks and motocross shocks and general hydraulic fluid use. It was about the same viscosity as 20 viscosity oil at 100C. With a nice Viscosity Index of 176. Loved that stuff.

 

[userfriendly]

Chevron 1000 THF meets Kubota UDT and JD 20C, or their Synthetic All Weather that passes UDT, J20C, JDM & J20D.

 

[IndyIan]

Chevron 1000 THF meets Kubota UDT and JD 20C, or their Synthetic All Weather that passes UDT, J20C, JDM & J20D.

I've used the Chevron 1000 THF, Shell Spirax S4 TXM, and now Petro Canada Duratran, and they all work fine in my 2011 DK40SE HST, but I'm going for the oil that has the highest HTHS.
Any of the THF should work fine at 50-60F though... Is their some kind of splitter or diverter valve that isn't working or adjusted right for when you ask for loader or 3pth flow? Most tractors now have a separate pump for steering, so there must be some hydraulic system to switch over?
tractorbynet is the place to ask, just go to the Kubota forum and say its L245DT if you are sure they are an exact copy.

 

[RandR10]

I've used the Chevron 1000 THF, Shell Spirax S4 TXM, and now Petro Canada Duratran, and they all work fine in my 2011 DK40SE HST, but I'm going for the oil that has the highest HTHS.
Any of the THF should work fine at 50-60F though... Is their some kind of splitter or diverter valve that isn't working or adjusted right for when you ask for loader or 3pth flow? Most tractors now have a separate pump for steering, so there must be some hydraulic system to switch over?
tractorbynet is the place to ask, just go to the Kubota forum and say its L245DT if you are sure they are an exact copy.

There's a priority valve that partitions some fluid to the steering at all times. It's not adjustable. I actually replaced this part and had the original in pieces. The assembly is crimped and you have to destroy it to get at the spring to change shims.

As far as the L245DT similarities, this is one of the things that differs between the two tractors. AFAIK all of the LB2204's shipped with loaders and power steering and almost none of the Kubota version had either, and the few that did had a different setup. Some of the later B-series Kubotas shared this part though. I have however rebuilt the engine with a Kubota kit for the L245 (sleeves, pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets; all the same). I've also walked into the local Kubota dealership and purchased front axle parts for an L245DT which worked perfectly on this machine. Long story short, it's not exactly the same, but axles, gearbox, engine, etc are shared.

However, as you can imagine, Kubota guys understandably get annoyed when you go on a Kubota forum and start talking about a Kioti. The vast majority of Kioti guys, including the parts guys at the dealerships I've talked to, don't even know this thing exists until I mention it to them. I figured being an oil related question, someone here might have some helpful information. Typical responses to similar questions on the tractor forums in general are usually met with "go with manufacturer recommended" which can't be done here. There was some legal battle between the two parent companies over intellectual property in the '90s, and out of that, I believe any support for this bastard child of a tractor was completely abandoned. I go to a Kioti dealer and the parts guy goes "that model isn't even in my parts books. Are you sure you got the right model?"

 

[RandR10]

A little insight here. I looked in the service manual again and it does say that the hydraulic system with an SAE 80w oil has an operating range starting at 59*F, so I think I may just have my answer there. I am still hopeful that an oil with a lower pour point will help though.

 

[userfriendly]

Would Chevron TorqForce Syn 5w30 work? It's the next fluid thicker than J20C.
The problem with going thick as you mentioned, is the slow hydraulics performance when cold.

 

[RandR10]

Would Chevron TorqForce Syn 5w30 work? It's the next fluid thicker than J20C.
The problem with going thick as you mentioned, is the slow hydraulics performance when cold.

Hard to tell. Probably work better than the 20w that's in there now when cold but not sure when it warms up. Honestly I'd be willing to take a slight hit in speed when warm if I don't have to wait so long to move the tractor when I need it. I'm often running it for just a few minutes anyway.

 

[IndyIan]

A little insight here. I looked in the service manual again and it does say that the hydraulic system with an SAE 80w oil has an operating range starting at 59*F, so I think I may just have my answer there. I am still hopeful that an oil with a lower pour point will help though.

All the fluids I listed have pretty decent pour points lower than -30C and they are summer fluids, but I run them year round as it seems a lot of what I do is heavy pulling/pushing.
If you are just running this tractor for a few minutes at time and aren't doing heavy ground engagement for hours, go with a full synthetic THF for cold weather like the Super UDT2(PP -42C), and run it for hundreds of hours, and just check it doesn't get water in it and it will be good for a long long time.
Then your hydraulics should work better even when the fluid is warming up.