Volvo brake software recall 2020-2026 PHEV/EVs

You had to be using “B mode” in the transmission you had to be going downhill for greater than 1 minute and 40 seconds with NO pedal application. Without audio, it’s hard to tell what is happening with the video you linked. I can’t tell if they are in B mode, or not, if they have applied the pedal, or not, or if they are just driving too fast.

It’s a recall - it’s already fixed.

I don’t know too many folks using “B mode” - it’s the one pedal drive mode with stronger regenerative braking - and I find it really annoying.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/volvo-recall-urgent-brake-failure-warning-select-vehicles

Instead of error-filled “news” articles, here is the NHTSA recall notice.
 
Astro14 said:
You had to be using “B mode” in the transmission you had to be going downhill for greater than 1 minute and 40 seconds with NO pedal application. Without audio, it’s hard to tell what is happening with the video you linked. I can’t tell if they are in B mode, or not, if they have applied the pedal, or not, or if they are just driving too fast.

It’s a recall - it’s already fixed.

I don’t know too many folks using “B mode” - it’s the one pedal drive mode with stronger regenerative braking - and I find it really annoying.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/volvo-recall-urgent-brake-failure-warning-select-vehicles

Instead of error-filled “news” articles, here is the NHTSA recall notice.
Click to expand...

Most people with EVs use one pedal driving? In my previous EVs I didn't use it often, but in the Tesla you basically have no choice and now that I'm used to it, I'd probably continue to use it in any other EV (assuming it's a decent implementation).

I understand the recall is already fixed (although apparently there are still some cars out there that haven't got the software update). I just thought it would make for interesting discussion. A pretty serious error in an important part of the car.
 
Well, what's new ?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/volvo-in-killer-brakes-inquiry/IYDR6TY7WOCL5DDL5FS2TOOV3I/

https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/...ion-with-the-wasselone-accident-in-france.70/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7219826.stm

In short - a Volvo 850 went down the sloped main street in the village of Wasselone, gathered speed and crashed killing two kids, gravely injuring a third.

I was the prime witness to an (unrelated) accident where an air-cooled 911 flew and did a longitudinal rollover after a snap oversteer in front of me on a very, very rainy night, just next to Wasselone, and the gendarme who took my testimony mentionned the investigation into that Volvo accident.

He didn't share much as the investigation was still ongoing and he was the stone cold, eyes of steel poker champion type, but he did mention that the lady who caused that tragic accident swore adamantly that her brakes became hard as rock on the sloped main street and the car accelerated, the car was picking up speed no matter what she did, then she released the pedal, pressed again and it worked that second time (but too late). Or something like that.

Volvo did eventually pay a 200k Euros fine without admitting guilt. Usually, in France one pays one symbolic Euro unless they are guilty as hell. It was the first time in France that an automotive maker was found guilty. Turned out they were having recurring issues with vacuum pumps on these, and going through different fixes but no recalls. The dealership had supposedly applied a fix, but it turned it was both the wrong fix, and done with the wrong repair kit, with a badly translated instructions sheet. There were no instructions in the user manual on what to do in case of vacuum loss. And the little lady's foot was not heavy enough or insistent enough to get it to stop in time.
 
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goblin said:
Well, what's new ?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/volvo-in-killer-brakes-inquiry/IYDR6TY7WOCL5DDL5FS2TOOV3I/

https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/...ion-with-the-wasselone-accident-in-france.70/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7219826.stm

In short - a Volvo 850 went down the sloped main street in the village of Wasselone, gathered speed and crashed killing two kids, gravely injuring a third.

I was the prime witness to an (unrelated) accident where an air-cooled 911 flew and did a longitudinal rollover after a snap oversteer in front of me on a very, very rainy night, just next to Wasselone, and the gendarme who took my testimony mentionned the investigation into that Volvo accident.

He didn't share much as the investigation was still ongoing and he was the stone cold, eyes of steel poker champion type, but he did mention that the lady who caused that tragic accident swore adamantly that her brakes became hard as rock on the sloped main street and the car accelerated, the car was picking up speed no matter what she did, then she released the pedal, pressed again and it worked that second time (but too late). Or something like that.

Volvo did eventually pay a 200k Euros fine without admitting guilt. Usually, in France one pays one symbolic Euro unless they are guilty as hell. It was the first time in France that an automotive maker was found guilty. Turned out they were having recurring issues with vacuum pumps on these, and going through different fixes but no recalls. The dealership had supposedly applied a fix, but it turned it was both the wrong fix, and done with the wrong repair kit, with a badly translated instructions sheet. There were no instructions in the user manual on what to do in case of vacuum loss. And the little lady's foot was not heavy enough or insistent enough to get it to stop in time.
Click to expand...
Had to go back to the 1999 to find another Volvo brake incident, eh?

That’s some serious digging, right there.

A 1999 crash of an early 1990s diesel car. From the description, it sounds like the vacuum pump for the booster failed, which isn’t a failure unique to this car.

And the brakes still work without vacuum assist, whether or not there were specific instructions in the “user manual” about having to press harder.

So, what’s new? You dredged up one incident from 26 years ago - hardly new.
 
I didn't have to dig anything up - it happened in my area, I never forgot it.
I am quite sure you read the rest before it vanished. Won't re-explain again. Cheers.
 
Sorry all, I did not want to create conflict. I have nothing against EVs, nothing against modern software defined vehicles, and nothing against Volvo (even though I don’t think I’d get one).

It was just supposed to be an interesting article and discussion :(
 
dogememe said:
It was just supposed to be an interesting article and discussion :(
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And interesting it was, even if discussion there wasn't (much).
There is no situation or algorithm result where brake function would be lost that can be considered normal. The book on this is written in blood, and it was written to a finished status quite some time ago. Some wheels should not be reinvented.

In my book (and I don't know what the regulatory status on that one is) - even a drastic and sudden change to the brake system's feedback behavior (pedal hardness vs braking force, pedal travel, etc) should not be allowed in normal condition and should be considered an extraordinary event which should be dully documented in the owners manual.

What is concerning, looking at the NHTSA report, is that the issue is apparently related to a previous over the air update, which was about a rear view camera issue. Which is in theory a completely separate thing that shouldn't impact the braking system.

Or at least - not in the way of the brakes not functioning (an overzealous braking behavior linked to camera issues could be partly explained by the automatic braking in reverse when kids get in the camera's field).
 
goblin said:
And interesting it was, even if discussion there wasn't (much).
There is no situation or algorithm result where brake function would be lost that can be considered normal. The book on this is written in blood, and it was written to a finished status quite some time ago. Some wheels should not be reinvented.

In my book (and I don't know what the regulatory status on that one is) - even a drastic and sudden change to the brake system's feedback behavior (pedal hardness vs braking force, pedal travel, etc) should not be allowed in normal condition and should be considered an extraordinary event which should be dully documented in the owners manual.

What is concerning, looking at the NHTSA report, is that the issue is apparently related to a previous over the air update, which was about a rear view camera issue. Which is in theory a completely separate thing that shouldn't impact the braking system.

Or at least - not in the way of the brakes not functioning (an overzealous braking behavior linked to camera issues could be partly explained by the automatic braking in reverse when kids get in the camera's field).
Click to expand...

If I was in charge of that brake system a software failure would result in the brakes applying. Not super abruptly so as for the car to screech to a halt at highway speeds but gradually.

I am only a web developer not an embedded systems or automotive developer but it should be possible to make it like that.
 
I am not a developer at all, but I would guess at no time did the system ever register this as an actual issue.

I know of a dev in Europe who was consulting / doing stints for an automotive manufacturer. He was called on a tightly scheduled project for a new model. Something small - some coding of the rear wiper module - an existing one had to be used, as it was listed in the parts bin. He was provided with whatever tools he needed, plus the existing code. He had to adapt the code for something trivial, like the range of motion, the duration of the intermittent stops - you name it.
He finished this ahead of schedule, but noticed that - the module and motor being used in a variety of models - there was a rare condition where, should the planets align, the wiper would try to go downwards rather than upwards when turned on. And safeties would not kick it, it would keep trying.
He offered to rework the code to fix this, which would have required an extra three days, and was politely told to not worry about it.
 
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