VOA for Honda ATF-Z1 !

[youdontwannaknow]

alright boys here's a VOA for Z1.
thought might be useful for comparison with UOAs and also VOA/UOA of other ATFs.

your comments highly anticipated.

 

[benjamming]

Thanks for getting the VOA done & posting.
How old was the batch?
Not exactly what I had expected. A little thicker than what I originally thought, but when I stop & think about it, I guess that's about right. I'm surprised that iron was the only wear metal that registered & it was 1!

BTW, what's up with them putting universal averages on a VOA of Z1? Is that an averaged list of typical ATF VOAs? Talking about worse that useless data. Anyway, appreciate it.

 

[youdontwannaknow]

actually it was farily new I just got it a couple of weeks ago. it doesnt seem to have a date code on it except "4-19" on the bottom and a dot matrix print that is "6LJA0028".

there is uoa down below from user 'realwing' that also has sulphur in it, in a significant quantity, which is not listed in this report. Maybe blackstone does not list sulphur but does it matter ?

 

[youdontwannaknow]

I think the universal averages are indeed other ATFs. The phosphorous count in the univ avg matches with blackstone's comments that this atf does not have phosphorous.

 

[glxpassat]

This fluid is probably different because it is used in their CVT transmissions as well.

 

[Doc8404]

THANKS!!!

Makes me wonder how well the Amsoil will do in the Civic vice the Z1 due to the magnesium and phosphorus levels....anyone ever seen a VOA for Amsoil ATF?

 

[benjamming]

It's interesting that there was once Honda CVT fluid but replaced by Z1 fluid.

 

[Pablo]

I still have a sample from my first drain of the Ody. I should send it in.

How does this compare to the other one (used?) posted that had P?

Lastly - there is a LOT more than what shows up elementally in a VOA to an ATF. And there are many ways to get a good AT fluid, ways that don't show up in a $20 VOA.

 

[benjamming]

Quote:

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Lastly - there is a LOT more than what shows up elementally in a VOA to an ATF. And there are many ways to get a good AT fluid, ways that don't show up in a $20 VOA.

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Ah now Pabs, don't go logical on us and spoil the fun.

 

[BobXRC]

Quote:

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It's interesting that there was once Honda CVT fluid but replaced by Z1 fluid.

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Its baaaaaccccckkkkkk. I did a fast google to find the part number. First thing I got a hit on was.....

http://www.gillmanauto.com/webfiles/servicenewsjune05.pdf

Part number 08200-9006, H/C 8031437. PDF has a picture.

Or look here http://www.artsautomotive.com/GenuineFluids.htm

I like the warning.. "make sure you're using this new CVT fluid. From here on, don't but AFT-Z1 in a CVT"

Its only good as long as honda wants to say its good.

PS states all 06 hondas that need CVT will use this.

 

[Whitewolf]

Hi, that's an interesting find.

 

[youdontwannaknow]

I believe the Amsoil ATF always had the warning "Not for use in CVT" printed right beside its Z1 certification.

 

[benjamming]

BobXRC,
Good find indeed. This begs the questions, what if you use CVT fluid for Z1 fluid in a standard AT?

 

[Doc8404]

Quote:

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I believe the Amsoil ATF always had the warning "Not for use in CVT" printed right beside its Z1 certification.

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yep, it does.

 

[Whitewolf]

I'm sending this to you but it's also for some of the others on this thread. The thing about CVTs is that they require specific metal to metal friction requirements and those requirements can vary depending on the a particular transmission design as well as whether you are talking belt or chain. CVTs generally have some sort of start or launch clutch but no shift clutches, for obvious reasons. However the launch clutch friction is important if shudder is an issue with the design. One of the problems with a CVT fluid is that the FM system needed for the belt/chain often is in conflict with the FM requirement for the clutch. That's one of the main reasons why virtually every OEM that has tried to use a 'normal' ATF in a CVT has failed and ended up using a 'special' fluid. That's also why a specifically formulated CVT fluid would almost without doubt give problems in a conventional automatic.

 

[Dad2leia]

Without getting too technical, what kind of problems in a transmission that requires Z-1 fluid?

 

[Whitewolf]

Well I can't be specific because there are a number of 'special'CVT fluids and they are not all the same or in some cases even similar. An example might be shift clutch performance, something that they may not be designed to cope with, since they don't have to in the CVT application. That might be anything from harsh shift to lack of torque capacity or excessive pack wear, depending on the materials used. Another problem that could be encountered is TCC shudder. Honda Z1 for instance is a very 'soft' fluid and that transmission may or may not work as nicely or as reliably if a harsher fluid was used. The bottom line is that a CVT fluid is made specifically to address CVT issues not AT issues, so it might work, it might not, but it's best not to try and find out when there are plenty of ATF options out there.

 

[Dominik]

Well Wolf you shed some light on the subject definitely enough for me to start diggin' a lil' deeper. It would seem that using such ATF as AMSOil might be better for our Honda/Acura grief boxes than the Z-1. There is not enough solid scientiffic data to back it up but people out there are happier with AMSOil than the Z-1 and report less material stuck to the drain plug (while following the same drain/refil intervals) with AMSoil. Is the muck stuck to the magnet not partially cominig from clutch pack wear? and is clutch pack failure not the most common failure mode for those transmissions??
OK I had asked too many questions here, but it definitelly seems that the Z-1 may not be all that good. Or is it?

 

[Whitewolf]

Check your PM.