Violation of the 1st Amendment

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Were you guys this worked up about never finding WMDs?

Starting a war based on a fallacy that killed thousands of American lives and many times more foreign civilians.

But Benghazi is worse, right?



Off topic much? Defense by deflection? Not sure what your point is, but typical.

 

[Spazdog]

It's no different than the NAACP, Greenpeace, and liberal churches being targeted by the IRS during the Bush administration.

It's the same stuff. It's just funny to me that one party is so good at catching the other party doing something "wrong". Of course they are good at catching them....they are using the same playbook.

We've had what....9 Benghazi hearings? The only truth that has been revealed is that Rand Paul wants to be president and feels that Hillary Clinton is the only serious opponent to his aspirations. They keep spending our money promising even more "shocking" revelations and then nothing happens

Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill and President Ronald Reagan did not agree on much, but they respected each other. With their mutual respect we could move the country forward. Now it seems that the parties exist only to roadblock each other. There's no respect. There is no common goal. All we do is oppose each other.

I'm not trying to make it political. In my eyes, neither party is innocent. I only used the Bush administration as a recent example. The IRS targeted conservative groups like the NRA and the Heritage Foundation during the Clinton administration.

 

[rjundi]

These "non-profits" are stretch IMHO and should be scrutinized. It is disgusting what is considered "tax-exempt" in the USA.

So its one sided this time. Next election it will flip. Normal business.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
It's no different than the NAACP, Greenpeace, and liberal churches being targeted by the IRS during the Bush administration.


So this really happened? I must have missed it.

Originally Posted By: rjundi
These "non-profits" are stretch IMHO and should be scrutinized. It is disgusting what is considered "tax-exempt" in the USA.



Why should they be taxed at all? I could (almost) see if they sell something and make a profit. But if you collect donations for your cause why even get the IRS involved? Why this desire to TAX everything???

 

[salesrep]

Originally Posted By: Pablo


Off topic much? Defense by deflection? Not sure what your point is, but typical.

well said.

 

[jimbrewer]

I think non-profits in general get away with murder. The California wholesale electric market that was such a debacle a few years ago was organized as a 501(C)3 charity, the charitable purpose being to"avoid regulation."

I'm not defending the IRS for singling out the Tea Party groups but in general I wish they did more rather than less.

I'm a lot more worried about the DOJ scooping up two month's worth of phone records from twenty lines at the AP. Now they know not only the identity of the guy who leaked the Yemeni underwear bomber story, but any leaker for any important story for two months. No government official in his right mind would ever talk to the AP off the record again, unless it was an "official" off the record comment. Nor, for that matter, the Washington Post or the New York Times.

So now we have a well-managed national press corps. The park bears get their handouts at the White House briefing. John Boehner responds. Maybe the reporter gets a professor or two to comment to add context. Maybe there is an "official" off the record comment. The real people who know the truth aren't there anymore. The public doesn't notice the leak that isn't made. All very tidy for the high government officials.

Our president is supposedly a liberal and a Constitutional law professor from Harvard. If this is what he is willing to do, what do you think the **** Cheney types will do in the future? I sort of think the administration is encouraging all this outrage against the IRS in order to distract attention away from the AP situation which is much worse, but that's about as political as I think I should get in this thread.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
It's no different than the NAACP, Greenpeace, and liberal churches being targeted by the IRS during the Bush administration.

It's the same stuff.


I honestly don't recall this. There are many legitimate grounds for criticism of the administrations of Mr. Bush and Mr. Clinton, but I do not recall abuse of the IRS being one of them.

And certainly not to this degree. Had they simply denied 501 (c) (whatever) (there are many sub variants of section 501c) applications of political discontents that would be one thing. Illegal still, but a horse of a completely different color.

Here it appears that the application process was used to obtain impermissible information and the information was used illegally - it was leaked to friendly media outlets and citizens were singled out for enhanced scrutiny because of political bent.

It's beyond outrageous, and one need only look at Article 2 of Mr. Nixon's Articles of Impeachment to realize the grave legal precedent and consequence that is involved here.

When I was audited by Mr. Bush's IRS, it had nothing to do with politics. And it wasn't a bring a shoebox of receipts type of deal, it was both sides bring accountants and lawyers. I can't imagine having to go through that kind of ordeal over politics. It's just beyond outrageous.

But apparently many of our fellow citizens had to.

Just because of what they believe.

I'm not at all OK with that.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
It's no different than the NAACP, Greenpeace, and liberal churches being targeted by the IRS during the Bush administration.


So this really happened? I must have missed it.


http://www.salon.com/2013/05/14/when_the_irs_targeted_liberals/singleton/

If you go back further you'll find the Clinton administration similarly involved. The GOP was so busy with Whitewater and Monica Lewinsky that they missed this.

You might even be able to find some similar involvement with George H.W. Bush. I doubt it. George 41 fractured the Republican Party when he went against the GOP "Two Santa Claus Strategy". Both parties punished him for it and he only served one term. Might have been our last halfway decent President.

 

[salesrep]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog


We've had what....9 Benghazi hearings? The only truth that has been revealed is that Rand Paul wants to be president and feels that Hillary Clinton is the only serious opponent to his aspirations.

Exactly.....no truths of who and why a stand down was ordered and why the youtube video was used as a coverup.

 

[simple_gifts]

I must have missed the wiretapping story; all I saw was a acquisition of phone records, which is not wiretapping.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
It's no different than the NAACP, Greenpeace, and liberal churches being targeted by the IRS during the Bush administration.


So this really happened? I must have missed it.


http://www.salon.com/2013/05/14/when_the_irs_targeted_liberals/singleton/



Not the same thing at all.

 

[salesrep]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
It's no different than the NAACP, Greenpeace, and liberal churches being targeted by the IRS during the Bush administration.i

While these may be wrong as well,500 targeted is WAY different than 3.

 

[salesrep]

http://www.thedailybell.com/29118/Anthony-Wile-Scandal-And-They-Shall-Eat-Their-Own-

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: salesrep
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
It's no different than the NAACP, Greenpeace, and liberal churches being targeted by the IRS during the Bush administration.i

While these may be wrong as well,500 targeted is WAY different than 3.


Oh, I'm not defending....If you punch 3 babies in the face, you are a bad person. If you punch 500 babies in the face you are still a bad person. Both parties are guilty. The GOP is just "good" at catching the Democrats because the Democrats are dumb enough to repeat the GOP's irresponsible and improper actions. (who in turn were often guilty of being dumb enough to repeat the Democrats' irresponsible and improper actions)

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
....
I'm a lot more worried about the DOJ scooping up two month's worth of phone records from twenty lines at the AP. ...


This is very bad, indeed, but we don't know as much about it, yet. It may be even worse than it looks. The IRS thing may even be worse than it looks.

Special Prosecutors need to be appointed. Mr. Holder's Justice Department cannot be relied upon to reach a result, one way or the other, that has any credibility in this or the IRS debacle.

Or the Benghazi coverup and Fast and Furious coverups, for that matter.

 

[Gabe]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Pablo: Even the Canadian media is appalled at what happened.


^^ That is how you know it is bad!

 

[Cutehumor]

In before the lock!

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
....
I'm a lot more worried about the DOJ scooping up two month's worth of phone records from twenty lines at the AP. ...


This is very bad, indeed, but we don't know as much about it, yet. It may be even worse than it looks. The IRS thing may even be worse than it looks.

Special Prosecutors need to be appointed. Mr. Holder's Justice Department cannot be relied upon to reach a result, one way or the other, that has any credibility in this or the IRS debacle.

Or the Benghazi coverup and Fast and Furious coverups, for that matter.


Well, the jury is still out on whether we will ever know anything. So far as I know there aren't any congressional investigations scheduled. If the White House is trying to gin up outrage against the IRS as misdirection, it looks like its working so far. I suspect that there isn't that much more to the IRS story, or the White House wouldn't be jumping on the bandwagon. We don't know if the phone records were taken by grand jury subpoenas or National Security Letters. There haven't been any indictments and there may not be any indictments or grand jury reports.

In fact, we don't really know if there was a legitimate security issue behind the phone records grab in the first place. Everyone seems to accept at face value Eric Holder's self-serving assertion that there was, but the AP implies that the government was just miffed that they didn't get to make the grand announcement first. Or maybe the security issue is pure pretext. The government certainly would get a lot of mileage from its shot across the bow in terms of press intimidation.

Anyway, I think POTUS protests too much about the IRS given his past, jokey point of view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhQHeQy-xQI

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Spazdog

These "non-profits" are stretch IMHO and should be scrutinized. It is disgusting what is considered "tax-exempt" in the USA.



Why should they be taxed at all? I could (almost) see if they sell something and make a profit. But if you collect donations for your cause why even get the IRS involved? Why this desire to TAX everything???


If they signed something saying they were an educational institution and the IRS came by a couple years later and said, hey, who'd you educate, why the ruckus?

 

[antiqueshell]

The thing is our nation is under a state of tyrannical rule and has been for decades now.
What did our Founding Fathers say about "tyranny" and how to release its hold on our government?

Tyranny is to be addressed by the Second Amendment.