Vibration under load - Honda Element

[JZiggy]

Trying to help my friend figure out a vibration problem on his 05 Element (manual, 4WD), ~200k.

Background: Originally, this vibration was so severe it was almost undriveable. I ended up swapping both CV axles with Amazon cheapies. The ones on there were aftermarket. One inner tulip joint was very badly worn allowing the shaft to oscillate off-axis. After replacement the problem got much less severe and that's where we are now.

Presently: In any gear, especially at lower RPMs, there's a moderate vibration. It comes right through the footwell, and is directly tied to load -- let off the gas and it stops immediately; give it more gas, amplitude increases.

- I removed the long-ass 4WD propeller shaft, nothing changed.
- Changed all the motor mounts to OEM (they were a little worn, but not blown up) - no significant change.
- Suspension has been overhauled (struts, lower control arms, balljoints) and is nice and tight

Current thoughts:
- Cheapie CVs are still causing a vibration
- Vibration from the bad CV caused something inside the transmission to wear out. When I push on the installed inner joint there's a little up-down play, doesn't seem like a ton, but I'm not sure how much is too much

Thanks for the troubleshooting ideas!

 

[TheOilWizard]

Any chance the motor mounts are the issue? I've had motor mounts cause the entire dash to rattle if they are bad enough.

 

[Nick1994]

Is this only while moving or while stopped too? In park?

 

[CharBaby]

I'm not saying that this is your friends problem but, I've never had good success with aftermarket CV joint/half shafts. They've all been rubbish. Others may have had OK success but not me. OE is the only way to go. I know, I know, OE expensive but you get what you get when you buy after market. That's my experience.

 

[JZiggy]

Only while moving. And the vibes do level out somewhat at higher speed like 70mph+. But when accelerating through 20-50mph it's pretty severe if you're heavy on the gas.

All motor mounts replaced with OEM.

I completely agree with the sentiment about OEM CV joints. If we still had the originals I'd reboot 'em, but we don't. I don't know if I can even buy new ones anymore...

 

[slo town]

A good friend of mine has a CRV of the same generation as the Element. They have the same chassis and drivetrain. He fried all four brakes to the point of catching on fire while towing behind his big diesel pusher motorhome. Things got so hot it even melted the outer CV joint boots.

Her replaced the halfshafts with cheap Chinese versions. He had terrible drivetrain vibrations when accelerating from a stop. Really bad. He replaced those with Honda OEM halfshafts, which fixed the problem.

FWIW,

Scott

 

[MParr]

.

 

[The Critic]

Aftermarket axles are the likely cause of your issue.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

At that low of speed you’re looking at the axles still.

Only other thing that comes to mind would be trans mounts. Did you check those? I didn’t experience any vibration but one time on a look over on my Honda accord I found a trans mount completely broken. Like I said, I didn’t experience any vibrations from that, but if motor mounts were sloppy or worn at some point it could’ve worn on the trans mounts as well.

 

[JZiggy]

Yes, when I said motor mounts I did ALL the mounts (5 in total I think??)

OK, thanks guys. I will check into axles.

 

[PandaBear]

My engine / tran mounts problem are always during idle only. Speed related vibrations I had were bad tires. Have you tried new tires (maybe 2) and see if it follows the old tires?

If not tires then probably CV / axles. If you don't want new OEM or OEM reman, get junkyard OEM ones for diagnostic. CV / Axles is one thing you do not want aftermarket or Cardone reman, they never get the heat treatment right.

 

[paulo57509]

The only drive axles I've ever had any good luck with were the ones I installed on the Legend back in June 2001; currently at 154k miles and trouble free.

These were rebuilt units from American Remanufacturers (ARI). We all know what happened to them.

 

[JZiggy]

Yeah, new high-quality tires. Also if it were tires I would expect the vibration to not be exclusively load-dependent.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Yeah, new high-quality tires. Also if it were tires I would expect the vibration to not be exclusively load-dependent.

That’s correct. A tire vibration is speed dependent and doesn’t start as low speed as you describe unless it’s a busted belt which is a sever wobbling vibration.

 

[nicholas]

Trying to help my friend figure out a vibration problem on his 05 Element (manual, 4WD), ~200k.

Background: Originally, this vibration was so severe it was almost undriveable. I ended up swapping both CV axles with Amazon cheapies. The ones on there were aftermarket. One inner tulip joint was very badly worn allowing the shaft to oscillate off-axis. After replacement the problem got much less severe and that's where we are now.

Presently: In any gear, especially at lower RPMs, there's a moderate vibration. It comes right through the footwell, and is directly tied to load -- let off the gas and it stops immediately; give it more gas, amplitude increases.

- I removed the long-ass 4WD propeller shaft, nothing changed.
- Changed all the motor mounts to OEM (they were a little worn, but not blown up) - no significant change.
- Suspension has been overhauled (struts, lower control arms, balljoints) and is nice and tight

Current thoughts:
- Cheapie CVs are still causing a vibration
- Vibration from the bad CV caused something inside the transmission to wear out. When I push on the installed inner joint there's a little up-down play, doesn't seem like a ton, but I'm not sure how much is too much

Thanks for the troubleshooting ideas!

With Honda I would only go OEM for CV.
Everything else will vibrate.....I promise

 

[JZiggy]

So here's a curve ball... I took a chance and ordered some nice looking OEM Element axles that are listed as being for an "SC" version Element. All my research shows that 03-11 Element CVs are the same, regardless of year, transmission, trim.

Any reason why these SC's should be different? Guess I'll find out in a few days regardless...

 

[JZiggy]

SC axles fit without issue. Vibration is gone.

Lesson learned - OEM only for CVs!