Vegitarians, whats off limits ?

[01rangerxl]

I'm an omnivore with a leaning towards veggies, and I like grains and dairy/eggs as well. Also love mushrooms. It's not a religious or moral, or even really dietary thing for me. It's strictly taste/texture preference based, so I guess I'm just weird. I'm picky about meats in particular. I'll eat chicken all day, cooked any way, I'll eat some turkey and some pork, and rarely I will eat beef. Again, not moral or dietary, I really actually don't like eating beef that much. Fish and other seafood is absolutely off the menu for me. I do not find the smell, texture, taste or anything about seafood appealing. I will catch fish, I will handle fish, but I will not put that stuff in my mouth. I did eat it some as a kid, but never really liked it. The last time I tried it was 2009...nope, still don't like it. Probably not a good thing as relatively unpolluted fish are usually healthy to eat, but it's simply not enjoyable for me.

I like the "veggie kabob plate" from a certain local restaurant. Lately they started asking if I wanted the cheese on it, whereas before it was standard. My reaction was "[censored]? Of course I want the cheese." I guess some hard core hippies got mad about the cheese. I'll take the cheese, just don't put any fish on it. I don't identify with any eating "category," I just eat what I want.

 

[Silk]

Bringing in fungi reminds me of a sci fi trilogy from the '70's by Piers Anthony, one of my favourite authors until he went into his weird fantasy thing. The main characters are Veg, a vegetarian, big and strong but not too bright, Cal the carnivore, small and weak, but a mental giant, and Aquilon the omnivore - and she's trouble for the other two. In the first book they are on a planet in habited by fungi - the third kingdom, neither animal or vegetable. The large herbivores are protected by a quick and intelligent carnivore from the voracious omnivore which destroys all before it.

Typical moral preaching from Piers Anthony, - these days his early books would be called Space Opera, I like planets and aliens in my sci fi.

 

[Schmoe]

Don't ask me.....just bought half a cow and got it processed. It's in my freezer, about 350 pounds worth of all grain and pasture raised from here in Oklahoma from a good friend of mine that does that on the side. In fact, this particular cow was a show cow that didn't make it to the auction. Yum!!!!

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Don't ask me.....just bought half a cow and got it processed. It's in my freezer, about 350 pounds worth of all grain and pasture raised from here in Oklahoma from a good friend of mine that does that on the side. In fact, this particular cow was a show cow that didn't make it to the auction. Yum!!!!


Adding Red Meat to Your Diet Linked to Higher Risk of Type 2 Diabetes

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013/06/18/ad.../#ixzz2WnqGg5Jm

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Don't ask me.....just bought half a cow and got it processed. It's in my freezer, about 350 pounds worth of all grain and pasture raised from here in Oklahoma from a good friend of mine that does that on the side. In fact, this particular cow was a show cow that didn't make it to the auction. Yum!!!!


Adding Red Meat to Your Diet Linked to Higher Risk of Type 2 Diabetes

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013/06/18/ad.../#ixzz2WnqGg5Jm



I saw that study and I do not buy it. I have no idea what the underlying mechanism would be that causes red meat consumption to trigger type 2 diabetes. I suspect red meat consumption is a mediating variable for something else. If I were to guess, I would say that eating lots of red meat is a marker for sloppy eating habits in general as vegetarians and vegans tend to be much more health conscious. Most meat eaters eat lots of processed foods, sugar, etc and less greens. With so many confounds, it's hard to know what is causing what.

I was a vegan for a while and I can tell you my blood lipids improved when I switched from vegan to a diet that includes red meat. I still eat lots of veggies but cut my fruit and added sugar intake. My triglycerides (which is the strongest predictor of type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome in general) dropped from over 100 to 52. My HDL went up too. So for me, it was the sugar not the meat that increased my odds of type 2.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

The problem I have with that study is that it was technically a meta-analysis from data that may not have been tailored to measure what the researcher here is stating. For someone to make such a bold claim, I would expect an actual experiment to be done or more control for other factors. I think in the abstract for that article, it stated that obesity was also a mediating factor for type two diabetes. Usually when people eat steak, it's followed by potatoes. Hamburger usually has the bun, the cheese, the condiments, the fries, and the soft drink.

The data used also seem epidemiological, which can be unreliable.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb

I saw that study and I do not buy it.

So for me, it was the sugar not the meat that increased my odds of type 2.


Thanks for your post.

It always amazes me that anyone could even imagine that one type of diet could work for all of us!

Utterly ludicrous. Humans are simply too diverse. Each of us must carefully choose the diet that works on our particular combination of genetic factors and conditions.

I also am not impressed by studies, some of them have quite a back story!

 

[FXjohn]

most vegetarian based societies are thinner and healthier. people who eat too much meat always seem to find a need to justify it. the problem is people who don't care and eat a lot of bad meat also eat a lot of otherbad food and probably don't exercise much

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
most vegetarian based societies are thinner and healthier. people who eat too much meat always seem to find a need to justify it. the problem is people who don't care and eat a lot of bad meat also eat a lot of otherbad food and probably don't exercise much


Well I agree with everything you said. The problem is that that study is misleading in that it singles out meat as the cause of diabetes when in fact, meat is just a marker of bad eating habits. I bet they'd get the same result if they focused on French fry eaters but then that wouldn't be as interesting because it doesn't draw any ideological battlegrounds.

And BTW I was a vegan and I can tell you there were all kinds of nutrient deficiencies in that community. Very few kids flourish on it but many parents make excuses and their kids pay the price. The vegans I know who flourished long term were athletes who were dropping 5000 calories of day. With that much food intake, its easier to get your micro nutrients.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
most vegetarian based societies are thinner and healthier. people who eat too much meat always seem to find a need to justify it. the problem is people who don't care and eat a lot of bad meat also eat a lot of otherbad food and probably don't exercise much


Well I agree with everything you said. The problem is that that study is misleading in that it singles out meat as the cause of diabetes when in fact, meat is just a marker of bad eating habits. I bet they'd get the same result if they focused on French fry eaters but then that wouldn't be as interesting because it doesn't draw any ideological battlegrounds.

And BTW I was a vegan and I can tell you there were all kinds of nutrient deficiencies in that community. Very few kids flourish on it but many parents make excuses and their kids pay the price. The vegans I know who flourished long term were athletes who were dropping 5000 calories of day. With that much food intake, its easier to get your micro nutrients.


vegan is different from vegetarian. just saying.

 

[VeeDubb]

True but vegans also hammer on meat eaters using essentially the same arguments.

The bottom line is that recent research is finding that sugar and refined carbs are responsible for a host of metabolic problems. Meat in itself is maybe a third or fourth order effect.

 

[javacontour]

Eggs are one of the most efficient protein sources for the human body.

It seems the typical human body has a harder time using the proteins found in non-meat sources.

I've taken the view that moderation is the key.

I can have a burger, but not every day.

I should have plenty of fruits and vegetables with the food I eat.

No need to eat anything bigger than the palm of my hand.

I don't buy in to 100% Paleo nor 100% vegan, vegetarian, etc.

Once you understand serving sizes, it's easier to eat well.

I think one of the problems we have is it's too easy to eat on auto-pilot. Food is so abundant. (Defining food rather loosely.) Most don't think about what they put in their mouth or how much.

 

[VeeDubb]

Those are excellent points. I'd also add avoid processed foods as much as you can. I cut all my heart risk factors (triglycerides to HDL ratio) and diabetes risk (triglycerides) by at least 50% just by cutting out added sugars, processed foods and making sure my carb calories stayed below 40% (which still let's you enjoy life).