I've used Maxlife ATF with much success in multiple vehicle types. I see that the Extended Protection covers a lot of the same fluids like Honda, Toyota, Mercon LV, etc. Would you chose one over the other??
Valvoline Maxlife ATF or Extended Protection ATF
- Thread starter Johnny248
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What is the application?
I'd choose EP atf just because I'm still iffy about trusting something made for both cvt and step shifts. I know its got some well made afton hi tec additive pack thats been tested and all that but I'd rather use blue bottle valvoline cvt or silver bottle EP atf.
Honda, GM, Toyota.
As long as they are on the list I'd use it.
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...3793b338/59f4663d-ac06-ed11-b814-48df3793b338
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If it's a Honda use Honda fluid. Honda ATF DW1 has a boat load of zinc in it. Nearly double or triple anything else. There is a reason Honda engineers put that much zinc in their ATF. Honda transmissions are unique in design as they make their own transmissions.
My mother's 02 Highlander is liking the EP very much.
Not that color is the only indicator and only an oil analysis can tell true condition as compared to new but in my 50 years, dirty black transmission fluid is burnt up, has been overheated and lost many of it's original properties. Unless Honda is adding some additive at factory causing this color and off odor I'd say tranny is getting too hot and fluid needs change more often.
In these pictures my 2019 Pilot EX-L with 6 speed tranny was 18 months old with 20k on it. It did 2 round trips towing a 2,000 lb load (loaded single axle cargo trailer) 100 miles, about 2 hours each way with at least 4 hours between drives. It has seen multiple longer family trips for Cheer Competitions, ski trips and family visits with 4-6 people in it. You know using your family SUV as it should be.
I don't think DW-1 is up to the task of even the 30k recommendations at least in THIS transmission. In my daughters CRV, no issues.
The pictures are what drained as I did the filter into a fresh clean container on left, new Honda DW-1 middle and new Valvoline MaxLife on right which some have used in place due to price and it being full synthetic but has some different viscosity and shift characteristics.
If I didn't have 18 months left on HondaCare extended it would have had 3-4 D&F with something else. I posted the pic of my tranny temp on previous page.
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Use what you want but my thoughts are since Honda automatics are unique in construction, as in they aren't using planetary gears like all other units. Honda engineers made a fluid with a very unique formulation most notably the very high levels of zinc in the fluid. There are other differences I'm sure but thats a major standout. Which is up to 10 to 100 times higher than other fluids. They have a reason for doing that. Do I know that reason? No. Do you know that reason I'm also guessing no. If Honda transmissions were more like others I'd say go for it but they aren't. I have owned many Hondas a good number being automatics. All of them had ATF swaps at 20k to 30K miles all of them trouble free for upwards of 325,000 miles all with genuine Honda fluid although addimitedly Z1 wasn't a good fluid. (I had an 07 Accord that went that distance only had to send it to the junk yard because of a bad deer hit).
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The Honda 10-speed is back to a normal planetary gear setup. The 4-6 speeds were basically an automated manual, hence the Z1/DW-1fluids being a weird beast.
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Wasn't aware of that. In that case for that unit I wouldn't be so picky. The two Hondas automatics I currently own are older 4 and 5 speeds. So my advice is based on that.
BrendanC
$100 site donor 2024
for the GM, use dexron VI (i like the valvoline dexron Vi fluid)
toyotas seem to like max life according to some (no experience here)
for the honda, as others said use only DW1. only reason i dont have it in my 05 accord is because it fails to go into gear some mornings and slams into 3rd. tried moving to HPL Green ATF to fix it but the symptoms were the same. my wife’s 03 accord is on DW1 that i change every 30ish K and the transmission is buttery smooth.
i’d also recommend a bottle of lubeguard red in all of them.
toyotas seem to like max life according to some (no experience here)
for the honda, as others said use only DW1. only reason i dont have it in my 05 accord is because it fails to go into gear some mornings and slams into 3rd. tried moving to HPL Green ATF to fix it but the symptoms were the same. my wife’s 03 accord is on DW1 that i change every 30ish K and the transmission is buttery smooth.
i’d also recommend a bottle of lubeguard red in all of them.
The reason is simple.
In and around the early 2000's Honda started moving upmarket with their cars. No longer were they basic little econoboxes, they were trending up in price, features, and luxury. You know what doesn't sell a luxurious car? Harsh shifting. Because they wanted to continue to use the 4/5 speed boxes they'd developed, they had to come up with a fluid to soften the shifts, and that's when Z1 was born. There's no special need or material in the trans that requires anything special from the fluid other than to soften up the shifts. The clutches, bearings, and gears don't really care what's in there, and as far as I know, as long as the fluid is in a reasonable viscosity range, the valve body doesn't much care either.
You might ask, why do the boxes tend to shift rough? It comes down to where the gears and shift clutches live and how they actuate. There are a few different gear changes in a 5 speed Honda box where the sequential gears are on the same shaft, meaning that one clutch has to come on and one clutch needs to go off at exactly the right time. This is hard to pull off and if you have a 'grabby' fluid in the box then you're going to feel it as a shock in the drivetrain. If you can soften the fluid up, you can get away with the bind in the shift because the clutches will slip enough to be smooth. Incidentally, owners manuals around this time say that you can use DexIII in the car, but 'you might notice hard shifts' or some language like that. There's more information in the Honda thread that's pinned to the top of this subforum.
Turns out, Z1 sheared out of grade pretty badly pretty quickly. DW1 is essentially the Z1 additive package in a stronger base oil.
FWIW, I use Maxlife with Lubegard Platinum in my 5 speed Honda boxes. Seems to be holding up well.
If you have a 2003-2005 MAYA/BAYA 3-shaft transmission (The V6 cars). Just plan on replacing it every 100-130k regardless of what you do. If you have an 06+ '4 shaft' box (Again, the V6 cars), keep the fluid changed and they will generally last a long time.
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When I conversed with Dave at HPL he recommended the HPL Blue for my daughters '08 CRV. It's a bit thicker viscosity vs green more toward what the original Z1 was.
It's like the blue bottle Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle. That is 6.9 cst vs 5.9 cst on the maxlife and new EP.
I had dealer do last D&F with DW-1. As of 6/23 at 52k that was 7 D&F's of DW-1 about 28 quarts and each time it is very dark and smells like garbage. Dealer acknowledged the concerns. It shifts well, no flare, no bobble. I had some chunks in my drain pan when I did it right before they did and my Magnefine filter was "fuzzy". That was with VCM disabled also.
My confidence in the DW-1 in my particular transmission and usage conditions is lacking.
BrendanC
$100 site donor 2024
interesting, i may dump my used Blue ATF from my truck into the accord when it comes time to send my 4l80 back to the builder. thanks!
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All of that stands to reason and may very well be correct and it may be unnecessary to have DW1. Two things that still give me pause. Zinc is an antiwear additive there is a ton of zinc in the fluid. Now you could say that the zinc is to combat wear due to clutch slip. Seems plausible but zinc reduces wear on everything not just clutches so it still seems worth having in the gearbox as again engineers tend to go with down and dirty quick solutions for issues.
Two a little clutch slip isn't a terrible thing as jarring gear grabs are due to sudden changes in inertia. That stopping or slowing causes force that is a factor of weight and rate of accel/deccel so softer shifts mean less shock on the gears beating and the like.
Now those fast jarring shifts mean less clutch wear but an outlandish dose of zinc also reduces clutch wear. So it may just be DW1 was formulated to give you the best of both worlds low wear and soft shifts. As I had an Accord with 320,000 miles on the original transmission and it still shifted very well I'm inclined to believe the fluid did its job just fine and isn't worth tampering with. Again there are reasons to go different routes but I've had great results with 30k spill and fills that ran me $30 ish dollars on oem fluid. So I give that advice.
Re: Honda DW-1
I converted to Amsoil at 156k miles on original transmission when I purchased this vehicle in 2015. 189k miles later and my Honda Fit's A/T is shifting flawlessly and even had it's common "case whine" cured by switching from Honda DW-1 to Amsoil SS ATF (ATL Blue Cap)...
DW-1 is certainly better than Z1 ever was, but DW-1 isn't necessarily a special elixir m. However, that doesn't mean just any multi-vehicle ATF will have the same results. DW1 can suffice for most Hondas, but the fluid can be improved upon. I’m very pleased going boutique in my use case.
Just my .02 YMMV
I converted to Amsoil at 156k miles on original transmission when I purchased this vehicle in 2015. 189k miles later and my Honda Fit's A/T is shifting flawlessly and even had it's common "case whine" cured by switching from Honda DW-1 to Amsoil SS ATF (ATL Blue Cap)...
DW-1 is certainly better than Z1 ever was, but DW-1 isn't necessarily a special elixir m. However, that doesn't mean just any multi-vehicle ATF will have the same results. DW1 can suffice for most Hondas, but the fluid can be improved upon. I’m very pleased going boutique in my use case.
Just my .02 YMMV
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