Valvoline Advanced 5W40 MST

[BurntMusic]

Here's another VOA, this time with Valvoline Advanced 5W40 MST. Disregard what is in the report about the oil bottle being open for so long. I wrote that in the description but then went to open it up and it was sealed and I was too lazy to print out another slip . I had mistaken it for an old bottle I used up. Regardless, I found this oil to be pretty underwhelming. The TBN is very low which makes me think and error was made on Blackstone's part so I may send a follow-up email if you guys think I should. The PP Euro I posted here last week had a TBN of 9.8, and the Total Quartz 9000 had a TBN of 9.1 so a TBN of 5.6 from a brand new, unopened bottle (purchased in Feb 2019) comes as a surprise. Let me know if you guys have any suggestions for more VOAs in the Euro 5w40 category and I'll see what I can do

 

[dblshock]

I wouldn't go out of my way for this or pay more than $2 a qt. for this ..looks below avg. to me, a 3-5k OCI offering.

 

[BurntMusic]

Originally Posted by dblshock

I wouldn't go out of my way for this or pay more than $2 a qt. for this ..looks below avg. to me, a 3-5k OCI offering.

In the oil's defense, I did run this oil for about 8600 miles and ended up with a TBN of 3.0. So it starts out low, but does not decrease as much as some others. Idk, I agree with your sentiment. I was disappointed by the TBN although I am thinking it could be an error. EDIT: I just sent a reply back to Blackstone about this samples surprisingly low TBN value. I'll be sure to update y'all when I get a response.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by dblshock

I wouldn't go out of my way for this or pay more than $2 a qt. for this ..looks below avg. to me, a 3-5k OCI offering.

Please let me know where I can pick this up for anywhere near $2 a qt. This is one of the few locally available oils that meet the specs for an older VW diesel and I last paid $5.

 

[BurntMusic]

Originally Posted by atikovi

Originally Posted by dblshock

I wouldn't go out of my way for this or pay more than $2 a qt. for this ..looks below avg. to me, a 3-5k OCI offering.

Please let me know where I can pick this up for anywhere near $2 a qt. This is one of the few locally available oils that meet the specs for an older VW diesel and I last paid $5.

Yeah I bought it when it was on sale at NAPA for $5 a quart for their new years sale. That's where I would check.

 

[skyactiv]

This thread proves why VOA's are worthless. There are anti-wear additives in some oils which wont show up on a VOA or UOA. Low and mid SAPS Euro oils tend to use them. I could name the additives and link videos but I will tomorrow if I have time.

 

[billpace1956]

The TBN being so low is NOT a surprise. This oil would go at least 10,000 miles on a oil change with no problems in a VW diesel.With the diesel fuel having the sulfur reduced from 500 ppm to 15 ppm, the TBN goes down much slower. When I used Mobil1 5W-40 in my 1984 Mercedes 300SD a few years ago the starting point for it's TBN was 5.6 also. It ran just fine.

 

[csandste]

Originally Posted by skyactiv

This thread proves why VOA's are worthless. There are anti-wear additives in some oils which wont show up on a VOA or UOA. Low and mid SAPS Euro oils tend to use them. I could name the additives and link videos but I will tomorrow if I have time.

Been on this board from the beginning. You could take this comment and find it on lots of Valvoline analyses/ samples (and WPP too). Always seems to do better in the real world, Diesel or gas.

 

[BurntMusic]

Originally Posted by billpace1956

The TBN being so low is NOT a surprise. This oil would go at least 10,000 miles on a oil change with no problems in a VW diesel.With the diesel fuel having the sulfur reduced from 500 ppm to 15 ppm, the TBN goes down much slower. When I used Mobil1 5W-40 in my 1984 Mercedes 300SD a few years ago the starting point for it's TBN was 5.6 also. It ran just fine.

So it's a diesel oil? Interesting. The bottle I'm looking at mentions nothing about specifically for either gas or diesel. That would make a lot of sense though. Thanks for you information! Here's the description from the back

Quote

Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic MST 5W40 is a premium, fully synthetic motor oil that is specially formulated with the highest quality synthetic base oils and enhanced with premium additives for ultimate performance in meeting the specifications for a variety of applications, including those for European vehicles

Here are the approvals: - MB 229.3 and 229.31 - MB 229.5 and 229.51 - VW 505.01 - VW 502.00/505.00 - BMW LL-04 - FIAT Chrysler MS-12991 - Porche A40

 

[BurntMusic]

Originally Posted by csandste

Originally Posted by skyactiv

This thread proves why VOA's are worthless. There are anti-wear additives in some oils which wont show up on a VOA or UOA. Low and mid SAPS Euro oils tend to use them. I could name the additives and link videos but I will tomorrow if I have time.

Been on this board from the beginning. You could take this comment and find it on lots of Valvoline analyses/ samples (and WPP too). Always seems to do better in the real world, Diesel or gas.

Yeah, like I said, I ran it in my car for 8600 miles and Blackstone found nothing out of the ordinary, it was just a bit thin side.

 

[loneryder]

MST is Medium Saps Technology and it came to market for diesels. IMO the zinc and phos are too low for diesels. I have used it and have 1 more oc of it for my MB CDI diesel but won't go more than 5-6k. These days the lines are blurred between oils for gas and diesel engines but low-mid saps oils can turn to sludge in gas engines on long ici's. Mercedes have some serious issues using Mobil 1 ESP oil in gas engines (by the dealers) with slugging. Because it said so on the bottle, the dealers were using ESP oils in everything to keep the wrong oil from being put in the diesels. Gas vehicles were coming in with 10-11k miles on the ESP oil full of sludge. MB blamed ExxonMobil who investigated and put the blame back on MB. Yes it's ok to use in gas engines but not for long ici's.

 

[BurntMusic]

Originally Posted by loneryder

MST is Medium Saps Technology and it came to market for diesels. IMO the zinc and phos are too low for diesels. I have used it and have 1 more oc of it for my MB CDI diesel but won't go more than 5-6k. These days the lines are blurred between oils for gas and diesel engines but low-mid saps oils can turn to sludge in gas engines on long ici's. Mercedes have some serious issues using Mobil 1 ESP oil in gas engines (by the dealers) with slugging. Because it said so on the bottle, the dealers were using ESP oils in everything to keep the wrong oil from being put in the diesels. Gas vehicles were coming in with 10-11k miles on the ESP oil full of sludge. MB blamed ExxonMobil who investigated and put the blame back on MB. Yes it's ok to use in gas engines but not for long ici's.

Thanks for the interesting tidbit there. So what happened after Exxon pushed it back to Mercedes? Was Mercedes just recommending too long of an interval?

 

[loneryder]

It is my understanding that MB stopped using it in gas engines. They still recommend 10k Oil changes. ESP oils are fine for 5-6k intervals. But owners are told to follow the maintenance minders.

 

[BurntMusic]

That's interesting. Thanks for that! EDIT: looks like the image is broken? I can't see any images on this website right now.

 

[BurntMusic]

So I got a response from Blackstone about the TBN.

Quote

Thank you for the question. I had the lab rerun the sample in question just to be sure, and we got the same result, so the TBN was not reported in error. As for why the TBN is lower than your other virgin samples, not all oils start at the same TBN. Some do start higher, in the 8.0-10.0 range, but especially for gasoline engine formulations, it's not uncommon to see slightly lower starting TBNs in the 5.0-7.0 range. Even with a starting TBN of "just" 5.6, you shouldn't have to worry about running out of active additive. Something else usually comes up that would suggest an oil change (too much metal, high fuel dilution, etc.) before the TBN hits our low point of 1.0.

 

[JFAllen]

Valvoline MST oils are DEXOS-2 compliant, thus they have lower SAPS (<0.8) and as a result they also tend to have lower TBN numbers for use with Ultra-Low-Sulphur (<10ppm S) fuels, both petrol and diesel. This oil is very similar to PP Euro L 5W30 in it's additive composition (except this has moly) This is my go-to-oil for light duty diesel's. Designed to help mitigate intake valve deposits. I'd use a Helix Ultra product, but they don't do a Mid-SAPS XW40 oil, only XW30's. Had it in my wife's Saab (Valvoline MST is ~20% cheaper than Helix Ultra in Australia, and her car was a beater) and since 2016 in my dad's Mitsubishi Trition Ute (pick-up.) no complaints. Regards Jordan