Value of a UOA

[moribundman]

If I suspect that something's wrong, the cost of an UOA and interpretation is well worth the money spent.

If I have an UOA performed to satisfy only my curiosity, I'd say my limit is at about $40, interpretation included. If I have a late model, expensive car, my pockets will be proportionally less deep and my arms longer.

In case of my car, my curiosity has been satisfied. Unless I sense a problem, I will not perform routine or even random UOAs any more.

How do you feel about UOAs and what they and interpretations are worth to you?

 

[Shannow]

Down here, the UOA is $40.

first one was my Nissan, a few months before warranty was up, so that I had something to use if something was (obviously) wrong.

Second was because I didn't like the Iron, and wanted to see how Molakule's additive went.

Will do another to see that this combo has settled (at least til I run out of Sx-Up)

Have a half arsed concept to try on my old beemer that may require UOA.

 

[The Critic]

The cars that my family and I currently own are not worthy of an UOA.

In fact, they are not worthy of anything other than the minimum maintenance required by the owner's manual.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
How do you feel about UOAs and what they and interpretations are worth to you?

Personally, I love to get down to the nitty gritty by having the UOA numbers available. However, I seem to be in disagreement with my local mechanic who thinks I am being paranoid and try to find a problem where a problem does not exist. Case in point: trace of coolant in my latest (first on this car) UOA. I ask them to check it out. They ask "Are you losing coolant?" I answer "No." They respond "Then you have nothing to worry about. If you have a coolant leak, we'll see a serious mess under the oil cap."

So all this UOA accomplished is that it got me worried and freaked out, while the shop thinks this is nothing and they won't even consider doing anything about it until they see some serious evidence with their own eyes. I suppose I could try to find another BMW indy mechanic, but there aren't too many of them out here and chances are, they will treat me the same.

So, I'm going to do another UOA in some time just to see if the coolant is still present and if it's going up or down... Terry's prices just went up though - it's now $60 a pop.

 

[benjamming]

Coolant showing up in a UOA can be a false positive. Evidently, we don't like preventive anything in US, just look at health.

 

[buster]

I think UOA's are used for the wrong reasons 99% of the time and become more of an obsession. Do we really know if 40 ppm of a wear metal vs 20 ppm (trended ) really has much significance? I would still prefer to have lower wear metals, but find UOA's more useful for detecting other potential problems such as coolant leaks, fuel dilution etc. A good engine is a good engine and will wear well regardless of the oil used.

 

[buster]

I like what dnewton3 said in another thread:

Quote:
Overall, how many engines do we see that actually failed due to insufficient lubricant properties? VERY, VERY FEW. It would be such a small fraction of a percent that it would be difficult to quantify. Further, one would have to prove that the engine failure was a direct result of lubricant inadequacey, and not some manufacturer's defect in the engine itself. Oil cannot make up for, or overcome, and defect in manufacture or design.

My only point in my previous post was to inform you of the possibility of missing potential failure, as you queried. You will give yourself a better chance of catching that potential failure if you stay consistent with one brand/weight of oil for all OCI/UOA's.

There are only two types of internal combustion failure; chronic (over time) and accute (immediate). We can probably effect the outcome of the chonic wear by choosing a good brand name oil, and using UOA's for the establishment of proper OCI's. We have NO realistic control over accute failures. A con-rod or piston that decides to grenade the engine is not reasonably attributed to the oil's lubricating qualities. So, you could probably catch the signs of abnormal wear, but you'll never see the catastrophic event coming until it's too late.

Just ride, eat, sleep, repeat! It's what I do!

 

[Quattro Pete]

buster, agreed.

Also, how about using UOA to determine a safe length of OCI? Of course in this case, a person would stop doing UOAs once the OCI is established.

 

[Gary Allan]

I mostly agree with buster and Quattro. I'd say that a UOA tends to tell you more about the oil and contaminants (coolant, etc.) than it does about wear. If you've got nothing "wrong" ..then you are reduced to seeing how well your oil is doing over your OCI.

..but I don't agree that you stop once your OCI is established. I'd say that you don't have to bother tracking every OCI once you've settled on your length of service. A once a year check up would be in order just to see if anything changed. There are also those who want to see how changing add packs effect the numbers.

But that's not the limit to why some do UOA. A few of us do it for all the normal reasons ...some of us do it to satisfy the "show me" crowd ..and some like to just see what happens when you say "hold my oil can and watch this". That is, some shouldn't do what they do without UOA to guide them.

 

[Master ACiD]

i just filled the blackstone opaque urine tester i mean oil tester today. its for my honda crv. seems like most people think its risky to go over 10K on a dino, even if its a diesel rated dino. so i figure i will do a uoa and see what comes up. maybe i can prove them wrong.
other than that, uoa is a waste for most people. i see guys dumping synthetic oils at 5K miles and doing a uoa with interpretation. man thats an expensive oil change. $25 for the oil, $5 for the filter, $25 for the oil analysis, and another 20+ for interpretation. thats $75+ just for an oil change.
know what else. i bet 90% of you guys can cut out the fat of an interpertation by a middle man. just post up the results here and you're sure to get some helpful replys. if you have questions, ask the lab. thats what they are there for.

 

[benjamming]

MA,

I will have to disagree with the interpretation being fat. If people on here are honest, they will admit there are probably less than a handful that are actually correct in their UOA interpretations. Some think they know a lot, and many try (which can be good), but very few know.

The labs are just that - a lab providing a set of numbers. Don't make them into more than they are. They don't know very much about particular engines and the ins and outs involved with each. Realworld experience with vehicles is not their forte.

 

[Master ACiD]

benjamming, if that were true than interpretation would be part of a uoa requirement not a 3rd party option to it.

 

[benjamming]

UOA requirement? The end user, customer, you and me, set our own "requirements". The labs provide what they can/want for the price that the market is willing to pay. I'm not following you. Throw me a bone.

 

[buster]

In some ways, this site has created a "cult mentality" where people are changing brands because a particular wear metal maybe 5ppm lower than another brand. It can become very ridiculous to say the least. I change brands often, but have fun with it. I never lose any sleep over this stuff. I can think of a billion things in life more important than oil analysis, that is for sure.

 

[mechtech2]

I'll never get one, nor recommend one for my customers.
If you have a coolant leak, the level goes down [faster or slower].

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

I'm in total agreement with mori.

 

[tom slick]

I don't get UOA done on any of my own vehicles but I have dealt with them in the industrial world which is a different philosophy then when we deal with our cars. On equipment you get UOA done on a regular basis so that you can trend the results in a larger database. OCI and performing overhauls based on trended UOA results can save serious downtime and money. it's part of "predictive maintenance".
On your own car what are you going to do if you have a slight spike in metals? tear into it? has anyone here predicted disaster in their engine through UOA? on the flip side, if you are not regularly using UOA how are you going to catch that slight coolant leak in your intake manifold that is otherwise unnoticeable?
My point is, unless for curiosity or specific troubleshooting, what are you doing with the data from sporatic UOA? they need to be done regularly to be of real use.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
I'm in total agreement with mori.

The check is in the mail.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, I just picked up a new customer tonight. Delivered his oil for his Goldwing. He asked about his Toyota. He does 20k a year and wanted to know if he could manage one OCI. I said "probably" ..but I would want to do a UOA @ 6months to see how everything is going.

I then pointed out that it would mainly tell me how the oil was holding up under his demands and to assure that his air filtration was doing its job and that he didn't have any air box plumbing leaks that were allowing abrasives to sand blast his throttle body, intake, valves, pistons ...or if he may have a slight head gasket leak ..or dirty injectors....or ... Some stuff that wouldn't matter if you were doing an extended drain or not ...some stuff that would.

All of these things never occurred to him.

This is someone who wants to stop doing 4 OCI a year. Is a spot check a waste in his case? I don't think that it is.

 

[tom slick]

To go with what Gary said, The best use of UOA in a vehicle would be to sample the oil at regular intervals and only change it when the UOA says that it needs to be changed. the problem is even with expensive oil its cheaper and easier to just change the oil in a car.