VAG 502 vs 504
- Thread starter Bailes1992
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Something to consider is the TBN's on 504/507 are typically nearly half as much as a 502.00/505.00/505.01 oil. If the 502.00 OCI is 10,000 miles (typical for VAG engines), obviously, don't expect the same OCI, maybe 5000 mile OCI is appropriate (verified by used oil analysis of course)
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Something to consider is the TBN's on 504/507 are typically nearly half as much as a 502.00/505.00/505.01 oil. If the 502.00 OCI is 10,000 miles (typical for VAG engines), obviously, don't expect the same OCI, maybe 5000 mile OCI is appropriate (verified by used oil analysis of course)
That's important to point out, but the relationship between OCI and TBN isn't exactly linear. Certain oils retain TBN better than others. Therefore, it's possible that a 504 could go 7-10k miles, but a used oil analysis would be required like you said.
Something to consider is the TBN's on 504/507 are typically nearly half as much as a 502.00/505.00/505.01 oil. If the 502.00 OCI is 10,000 miles (typical for VAG engines), obviously, don't expect the same OCI, maybe 5000 mile OCI is appropriate (verified by used oil analysis of course)
That's important to point out, but the relationship between OCI and TBN isn't exactly linear. Certain oils retain TBN better than others. Therefore, it's possible that a 504 could go 7-10k miles, but a used oil analysis would be required like you said.
I've done a bit more research and the 504 oil for the variable OCIs can last upto 2 years and 18,000miles. The 502 oil according to the manufacturer is only fit for 1 year or 10,000miles. I'd therefore hazard a guess that the TBN retention of the 504 oils is better than the 502 oils.
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
I've done a bit more research and the 504 oil for the variable OCIs can last upto 2 years and 18,000miles. The 502 oil according to the manufacturer is only fit for 1 year or 10,000miles. I'd therefore hazard a guess that the TBN retention of the 504 oils is better than the 502 oils.
That's impressive. 504/507 and C30 oils are cutting edge.
I've done a bit more research and the 504 oil for the variable OCIs can last upto 2 years and 18,000miles. The 502 oil according to the manufacturer is only fit for 1 year or 10,000miles. I'd therefore hazard a guess that the TBN retention of the 504 oils is better than the 502 oils.
That's impressive. 504/507 and C30 oils are cutting edge.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
I've done a bit more research and the 504 oil for the variable OCIs can last upto 2 years and 18,000miles. The 502 oil according to the manufacturer is only fit for 1 year or 10,000miles. I'd therefore hazard a guess that the TBN retention of the 504 oils is better than the 502 oils.
That's impressive. 504/507 and C30 oils are cutting edge.
Not really, 503.00/503.01 (506.00 and 506.01 for diesels) oils are good for up to 30,000 km (18000 miles), which those specs for the flexible service interval.
Originally Posted By: Bailes1992
I've done a bit more research and the 504 oil for the variable OCIs can last upto 2 years and 18,000miles. The 502 oil according to the manufacturer is only fit for 1 year or 10,000miles. I'd therefore hazard a guess that the TBN retention of the 504 oils is better than the 502 oils.
That's impressive. 504/507 and C30 oils are cutting edge.
Not really, 503.00/503.01 (506.00 and 506.01 for diesels) oils are good for up to 30,000 km (18000 miles), which those specs for the flexible service interval.
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Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Not really, 503.00/503.01 (506.00 and 506.01 for diesels) oils are good for up to 30,000 km (18000 miles), which those specs for the flexible service interval.
504/507 is a newer standard with more stringent sludge and soot thickening requirements. It's probably being held back in service life due to its lower TBN (lower additive count), as it is designed for vehicles with after-treatment devices. I would still say it is a more advanced oil than 503.01/506.01
Not really, 503.00/503.01 (506.00 and 506.01 for diesels) oils are good for up to 30,000 km (18000 miles), which those specs for the flexible service interval.
504/507 is a newer standard with more stringent sludge and soot thickening requirements. It's probably being held back in service life due to its lower TBN (lower additive count), as it is designed for vehicles with after-treatment devices. I would still say it is a more advanced oil than 503.01/506.01
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Not really, 503.00/503.01 (506.00 and 506.01 for diesels) oils are good for up to 30,000 km (18000 miles), which those specs for the flexible service interval.
504/507 is a newer standard with more stringent sludge and soot thickening requirements. It's probably being held back in service life due to its lower TBN (lower additive count), as it is designed for vehicles with after-treatment devices. I would still say it is a more advanced oil than 503.01/506.01
504/507 is suited for fuel with ultra-low sulfur. Fine for US diesels, but not optimal for US sulfur levels in gasoline.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Not really, 503.00/503.01 (506.00 and 506.01 for diesels) oils are good for up to 30,000 km (18000 miles), which those specs for the flexible service interval.
504/507 is a newer standard with more stringent sludge and soot thickening requirements. It's probably being held back in service life due to its lower TBN (lower additive count), as it is designed for vehicles with after-treatment devices. I would still say it is a more advanced oil than 503.01/506.01
504/507 is suited for fuel with ultra-low sulfur. Fine for US diesels, but not optimal for US sulfur levels in gasoline.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
504/507 is suited for fuel with ultra-low sulfur. Fine for US diesels, but not optimal for US sulfur levels in gasoline.
Agreed. Although, 504/507 would still be a good option for U.S. gas if one shortens up the OCI to say 6-8k (with a used oil analysis with TBN analysis to back it up).
504/507 is suited for fuel with ultra-low sulfur. Fine for US diesels, but not optimal for US sulfur levels in gasoline.
Agreed. Although, 504/507 would still be a good option for U.S. gas if one shortens up the OCI to say 6-8k (with a used oil analysis with TBN analysis to back it up).
Considering the small difference in price between 502 and 504 oils I've decided to run a 504 oil for 12 months/5000miles.
I'm planning on switching to ESP in my own Focus at the next OCI as I love the M1 Turbo Diesel in it currently but not comfortable with the high levels of SAPS so doing this will mean one oil for both cars!
I'm planning on switching to ESP in my own Focus at the next OCI as I love the M1 Turbo Diesel in it currently but not comfortable with the high levels of SAPS so doing this will mean one oil for both cars!
Originally Posted By: supercity
Originally Posted By: SR5
VW 504 / 507 (low SAPS) is the newer spec that replaces the older 502 / 505 (high SAPS) spec. Both will work fine in your car.
I don't mean to jump on you, however - while full SAPS VW 502/505 lubes are common, full SAPS is not a requirement, C3 oils can meet 502/505 too.
Yes I agree 502/505 can be full-SAPS or mid-SAPS, but I think 504/507 is only low-SAPS.
Originally Posted By: SR5
VW 504 / 507 (low SAPS) is the newer spec that replaces the older 502 / 505 (high SAPS) spec. Both will work fine in your car.
I don't mean to jump on you, however - while full SAPS VW 502/505 lubes are common, full SAPS is not a requirement, C3 oils can meet 502/505 too.
Yes I agree 502/505 can be full-SAPS or mid-SAPS, but I think 504/507 is only low-SAPS.
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