Trade oil in oz of gold instead or US doll.
UN calls for oil price controls
- Thread starter Tempest
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You see why a set price might help after this weeks oil price changes.
No, because the price went down.
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Has anything really changed to affect supply in the last week?....Not really.
The dollar changed.
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Hey investors. Find some companies to invest in and leave our oil and food alone!
Maybe if the government/FED would stop printing money and spending like crazy and passing all kinds of anti-corporation regulation and keeping the interest rate too low, they might.
You see why a set price might help after this weeks oil price changes.
No, because the price went down.
Quote:
Has anything really changed to affect supply in the last week?....Not really.
The dollar changed.
Quote:
Hey investors. Find some companies to invest in and leave our oil and food alone!
Maybe if the government/FED would stop printing money and spending like crazy and passing all kinds of anti-corporation regulation and keeping the interest rate too low, they might.
So let me get this straight.
It is ok for a buyer and seller to agree on a price as long as it is in the market and can be based on any number of assumptions that may or may not come true that might affect the demand for or supply of oil.
But somehow having buyers and sellers agree to a price on their own and then sticking to it as men/businesses of honor is not ok or possible.
What a sad world we live in.
It is ok for a buyer and seller to agree on a price as long as it is in the market and can be based on any number of assumptions that may or may not come true that might affect the demand for or supply of oil.
But somehow having buyers and sellers agree to a price on their own and then sticking to it as men/businesses of honor is not ok or possible.
What a sad world we live in.
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Oh "T". Always the Governments fault........
I'd have to agree with Tempest here, Zman. Just about everything that ends up bad is the governments fault. As amatter of fact i have never seen anything they do well. Except spend and tax.
The big problem we have here is that the "Fed" isn't part of the government. It is privately owned.
Our government just borrows printed money from them and then we make interest only payments on the debt.
The more they print and the more D.C. borrows the less the dollar is worth which equates to higher gas prices and higher prices on everything.
The other problem is that the dollar has been pegged to oil ever since we were unconstitutionally taken off of the gold standard back in 1971.
That was a BIG mistake. We are just now seeing the results after 41 years of printing, borrowing and spending although the "dollar" which is basically counterfeit money has been losing value ever since 1913 when the scam started.
The Federal Reserve Note is an unconstitutional currency. It is illegal for the very reason we are seeing right now. Deflation of it with nothing real to back it and inflation of prices on everything.
Oh "T". Always the Governments fault........
I'd have to agree with Tempest here, Zman. Just about everything that ends up bad is the governments fault. As amatter of fact i have never seen anything they do well. Except spend and tax.
The big problem we have here is that the "Fed" isn't part of the government. It is privately owned.
Our government just borrows printed money from them and then we make interest only payments on the debt.
The more they print and the more D.C. borrows the less the dollar is worth which equates to higher gas prices and higher prices on everything.
The other problem is that the dollar has been pegged to oil ever since we were unconstitutionally taken off of the gold standard back in 1971.
That was a BIG mistake. We are just now seeing the results after 41 years of printing, borrowing and spending although the "dollar" which is basically counterfeit money has been losing value ever since 1913 when the scam started.
The Federal Reserve Note is an unconstitutional currency. It is illegal for the very reason we are seeing right now. Deflation of it with nothing real to back it and inflation of prices on everything.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
But once again, what on Earth does gold have to do with money ?
It would be better to have an "Oil Backed" Currency.
But once again, what on Earth does gold have to do with money ?
It would be better to have an "Oil Backed" Currency.
I think that was the reason for a war or two from memory.
But when the answer to being broke is to put dollar bills through the photocopier, they rapidly adopt the value of copy paper...and soon copy paper that's got junk written both sides.
But when the answer to being broke is to put dollar bills through the photocopier, they rapidly adopt the value of copy paper...and soon copy paper that's got junk written both sides.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
But once again, what on Earth does gold have to do with money ?
It's worthless but for what we like it for.
Shannow,
Gold and silver are the only REAL money on the planet. It's been that way for thousands of years which is why in the light of collapsing currencies around the globe the central banks and countries like India, China etc. are stocking up on gold.
The U.S. Constitution says that gold and silver are the only real money that are legal for a reason. If you can only print paper money for what you have gold to back it up with the government can't do what it has done.
The United States doesn't own even one ouce of gold which is why when the dollar collapses completely we will be hit harder than many.
Right now anyone can take a silver or gold evil to any country on the planet and buy something with it. That can't be done with the FRN.
The only reason gold and silver prices are as low as they are is because of the rigging of the gold and silver markets by the biggest banks such as J.P. Morgan/Chase who, incidentally also owns Exxon/Mobil.
But once again, what on Earth does gold have to do with money ?
It's worthless but for what we like it for.
Shannow,
Gold and silver are the only REAL money on the planet. It's been that way for thousands of years which is why in the light of collapsing currencies around the globe the central banks and countries like India, China etc. are stocking up on gold.
The U.S. Constitution says that gold and silver are the only real money that are legal for a reason. If you can only print paper money for what you have gold to back it up with the government can't do what it has done.
The United States doesn't own even one ouce of gold which is why when the dollar collapses completely we will be hit harder than many.
Right now anyone can take a silver or gold evil to any country on the planet and buy something with it. That can't be done with the FRN.
The only reason gold and silver prices are as low as they are is because of the rigging of the gold and silver markets by the biggest banks such as J.P. Morgan/Chase who, incidentally also owns Exxon/Mobil.
Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
Originally Posted By: Shannow
But once again, what on Earth does gold have to do with money ?
It would be better to have an "Oil Backed" Currency.
That is what Wall Street and the central bank did back in 1971 and THAT is why we have the economic problems we do. Using a natural resource that is necessary for modern life as the backing for the currecny is stupid to say the least. Unless you're the one who has complete control of the currency AND what is backing it in which case you can make a whole boat load of money.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
But once again, what on Earth does gold have to do with money ?
It would be better to have an "Oil Backed" Currency.
That is what Wall Street and the central bank did back in 1971 and THAT is why we have the economic problems we do. Using a natural resource that is necessary for modern life as the backing for the currecny is stupid to say the least. Unless you're the one who has complete control of the currency AND what is backing it in which case you can make a whole boat load of money.
Originally Posted By: ZZman
So let me get this straight.
It is ok for a buyer and seller to agree on a price as long as it is in the market and can be based on any number of assumptions that may or may not come true that might affect the demand for or supply of oil.
But somehow having buyers and sellers agree to a price on their own and then sticking to it as men/businesses of honor is not ok or possible.
What a sad world we live in.
What you've described is what happens. Buyers and sellers agree on a price everyday. They do stick to that price for that transaction.
However, the next day, they negotiate again in the marketplace. So the price may go up or down.
So what you want is happening, buyers and sellers agree to a price and stick to it. But that price applies ONLY to that transaction.
You want the price set once and then live with it.
So if you financed your house when mortgage rates were in the teens, would you be willing to "stick with the price" of your mortgage when rates came down to 4%.
Of course not.
But you want others to do that with oil, but I doubt you would stick to a 14% mortgage when you could get a 4% mortgage.
What you are saying is you should be allowed to shop around and make deals, but folks who buy and sell gas, oil, diesel, etc should not be allowed to shop around.
You may not think of it that way, but that's what you are saying, control them, but don't control me.
So let me get this straight.
It is ok for a buyer and seller to agree on a price as long as it is in the market and can be based on any number of assumptions that may or may not come true that might affect the demand for or supply of oil.
But somehow having buyers and sellers agree to a price on their own and then sticking to it as men/businesses of honor is not ok or possible.
What a sad world we live in.
What you've described is what happens. Buyers and sellers agree on a price everyday. They do stick to that price for that transaction.
However, the next day, they negotiate again in the marketplace. So the price may go up or down.
So what you want is happening, buyers and sellers agree to a price and stick to it. But that price applies ONLY to that transaction.
You want the price set once and then live with it.
So if you financed your house when mortgage rates were in the teens, would you be willing to "stick with the price" of your mortgage when rates came down to 4%.
Of course not.
But you want others to do that with oil, but I doubt you would stick to a 14% mortgage when you could get a 4% mortgage.
What you are saying is you should be allowed to shop around and make deals, but folks who buy and sell gas, oil, diesel, etc should not be allowed to shop around.
You may not think of it that way, but that's what you are saying, control them, but don't control me.
It's a catch 22. If prices are regulated, then we have to deal with long lines at gas station, or go without altogether, and if they're not, we have to deal with ridiculously high prices. Either way it's a lose/lose situation for consumers...BTW, natural gas and electricity prices are regulated, and there are never any shortages of those sources. Why do price controls on gasoline/diesel cause shortages?
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natural gas and electricity prices are regulated
Natural gas prices are regulated?
And price controls on power are what caused the California power shortage / Enron debacle.
natural gas and electricity prices are regulated
Natural gas prices are regulated?
And price controls on power are what caused the California power shortage / Enron debacle.
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
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natural gas and electricity prices are regulated
Natural gas prices are regulated?
And price controls on power are what caused the California power shortage / Enron debacle.
I figured someone would come back with some weak, cheesy reply...
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natural gas and electricity prices are regulated
Natural gas prices are regulated?
And price controls on power are what caused the California power shortage / Enron debacle.
I figured someone would come back with some weak, cheesy reply...
Originally Posted By: grampi
I figured someone would come back with some weak, cheesy reply...
Facts are a stinker, eh?
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California's energy deregulation scheme allowed wholesalers to charge whatever the market would bear but capped the amount consumers could be billed. It also created differential prices for energy produced in-state and out-of-state. Enron's scheming seems to relate to efforts making in-state electricity look like out-of-state electricity so it could then be sold at a higher price. Enron was neither a generator nor utility in California, but it did act as a middleman--along with many other companies.
http://www.forbes.com/2002/10/18/1018topnews.html
Price controls during the 1970's made gas shortages far worse:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/may/15/20060515-122820-6110r/?page=1
I figured someone would come back with some weak, cheesy reply...
Facts are a stinker, eh?
Quote:
California's energy deregulation scheme allowed wholesalers to charge whatever the market would bear but capped the amount consumers could be billed. It also created differential prices for energy produced in-state and out-of-state. Enron's scheming seems to relate to efforts making in-state electricity look like out-of-state electricity so it could then be sold at a higher price. Enron was neither a generator nor utility in California, but it did act as a middleman--along with many other companies.
http://www.forbes.com/2002/10/18/1018topnews.html
Price controls during the 1970's made gas shortages far worse:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/may/15/20060515-122820-6110r/?page=1
The era of price controls is most remembered for long lines at gas stations. The controls were put in place by the Nixon and Ford administrations in reaction to a jump in fuel prices caused by cuts in production by the newly formed international oil cartel, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.
The difference then Tempest was the lack of supply and then trying to slap price controls on it.
This was not involving an "agreed" upon price by both buyers and sellers and also did not involve speculators driving prices far above what they should be,
The difference then Tempest was the lack of supply and then trying to slap price controls on it.
This was not involving an "agreed" upon price by both buyers and sellers and also did not involve speculators driving prices far above what they should be,
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The problem is the Goverments/UN (mostly undemocratic and unresponsive to their own people) setting the price will be neither the end users of the oil or primary producers of the oil.
They will not accurately know either the value to the consumer or the cost to the producer. These values are different for every consumer and every producer (for large producers this is even true for each well or infrastructure investment).
They will not accurately know either the value to the consumer or the cost to the producer. These values are different for every consumer and every producer (for large producers this is even true for each well or infrastructure investment).
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Facts are a stinker, eh?
Except for the fact that certain energy sources are price regulated, and with the exception of isolated instances, supply of these sources is largely uneffected by price regulations. This isn't so with crude oil products. Care to tell us all why?
Facts are a stinker, eh?
Except for the fact that certain energy sources are price regulated, and with the exception of isolated instances, supply of these sources is largely uneffected by price regulations. This isn't so with crude oil products. Care to tell us all why?
Originally Posted By: MonumentOiler
The problem is the Goverments/UN (mostly undemocratic and unresponsive to their own people) setting the price will be neither the end users of the oil or primary producers of the oil.
You missed the point MO. The UN did not "set" the price. The range would be negotiated and agreed upon. Instead of investors deciding what the range would be the UN/producers would. A contract would be made like is constantly done in business.
The problem is the Goverments/UN (mostly undemocratic and unresponsive to their own people) setting the price will be neither the end users of the oil or primary producers of the oil.
You missed the point MO. The UN did not "set" the price. The range would be negotiated and agreed upon. Instead of investors deciding what the range would be the UN/producers would. A contract would be made like is constantly done in business.
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