toyota's ws fluid
- Thread starter wjli
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Dude, be prepared for a bunch of different answers... 
Here's my "take": Toyota says WS is a "lifetime" fluid and doesn't need changing, unless you tow. My experience with similar claims by other manufacturers is that there's no such thing as a lifetime fluid; it's all marketing hype. The fluid in my niece's '06 Fusion said it only needed to be changed at 150,000 miles. When I drained it at 30,000, it was already turning dark. I've also heard from members of RAV4 World that they've had similar experiences with their RAVs using WS at 50-60,000 miles.
So......
Take it with a grain of salt. If you don't tow or haul a max load all the time, you're probably fine for 50,000 miles. If it was MY car, I'd still do a drain & fill every 30,000. 3-4 quarts of ATF every couple of years is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
Here's my "take": Toyota says WS is a "lifetime" fluid and doesn't need changing, unless you tow. My experience with similar claims by other manufacturers is that there's no such thing as a lifetime fluid; it's all marketing hype. The fluid in my niece's '06 Fusion said it only needed to be changed at 150,000 miles. When I drained it at 30,000, it was already turning dark. I've also heard from members of RAV4 World that they've had similar experiences with their RAVs using WS at 50-60,000 miles.
So......
Take it with a grain of salt. If you don't tow or haul a max load all the time, you're probably fine for 50,000 miles. If it was MY car, I'd still do a drain & fill every 30,000. 3-4 quarts of ATF every couple of years is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
I agree with Overlord, it's not a lifetime fluid.
OP, type the words toyota ws into the search box at the top of the page, click SEARCH, then read until your eyes bleed.
OP, type the words toyota ws into the search box at the top of the page, click SEARCH, then read until your eyes bleed.
To car manufactures, "Lifetime" fluids, PSF or Trans Fluid or Gear Fluid ... means the lifetime of warranty which is varied from manufacture to manufacture, it can be as little as 3 years/36k miles.
It is a fluid that is low viscosity that doesn't shear much, and decent quality. I wouldn't call it lifetime unless your lifetime is only 150k miles until a rebuild or gasket repair that needs to drain it out.
I'd probably drain and refill it every 60k interval (around when warranty expire) and call it a day. With today's rev matching transmission the load on the fluid is probably not as much as it used to be, but still, I think you should change it once in a while just to keep the additives fresh.
I'd probably drain and refill it every 60k interval (around when warranty expire) and call it a day. With today's rev matching transmission the load on the fluid is probably not as much as it used to be, but still, I think you should change it once in a while just to keep the additives fresh.
All the modern "lifetime" fluids certainly are longer lived than the previous generation of fluids. The manufacturers have their necks out for 100,000 miles for some powertrain warranties, as well as the extended protection plans they sell.
So, what to do? I agree with the drain & refill plans at 50k or 60k or whatever suits your maintenance schedule. Just a change in color is not enough to warrant a fluid change. The color change might be material from the friction surfaces which does not indicate a loss of oil quality. Or it can be a change in the dye in the oil. Blackstone Lab can test the fluid for $22.50 if one is in question--cheaper than a full flush that might not be needed.
So, what to do? I agree with the drain & refill plans at 50k or 60k or whatever suits your maintenance schedule. Just a change in color is not enough to warrant a fluid change. The color change might be material from the friction surfaces which does not indicate a loss of oil quality. Or it can be a change in the dye in the oil. Blackstone Lab can test the fluid for $22.50 if one is in question--cheaper than a full flush that might not be needed.
Play it safe! Change it every 2-3 years at what ever miles you feel comfortable with. I've have an 01 Lexus with a sludger engine and a known weak tranny. I change the oil often and the ATF too! So far, so good.
The recommended AT change is determined by the visual condition and smell of the fluid. There is a recommended inspect fluid interval and it NEVER states it is a life time fluid. Why people keep putting their wording into the maintenance schedule always puzzles me.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
The recommended AT change is determined by the visual condition and smell of the fluid. There is a recommended inspect fluid interval and it NEVER states it is a life time fluid. Why people keep putting their wording into the maintenance schedule always puzzles me.
Chrysler, Hyundai and a number of other manufacturers have stated in their service manuals that color and odor are not reliable indicators of fluid condition.
The recommended AT change is determined by the visual condition and smell of the fluid. There is a recommended inspect fluid interval and it NEVER states it is a life time fluid. Why people keep putting their wording into the maintenance schedule always puzzles me.
Chrysler, Hyundai and a number of other manufacturers have stated in their service manuals that color and odor are not reliable indicators of fluid condition.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Eddie
The recommended AT change is determined by the visual condition and smell of the fluid. There is a recommended inspect fluid interval and it NEVER states it is a life time fluid. Why people keep putting their wording into the maintenance schedule always puzzles me.
Chrysler, Hyundai and a number of other manufacturers have stated in their service manuals that color and odor are not reliable indicators of fluid condition.
I've heard that before and am not sure I believe in it. Dark ATF means it's been oxidized. If my ATF has turned dark, then I'm changing it.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
The recommended AT change is determined by the visual condition and smell of the fluid. There is a recommended inspect fluid interval and it NEVER states it is a life time fluid. Why people keep putting their wording into the maintenance schedule always puzzles me.
Chrysler, Hyundai and a number of other manufacturers have stated in their service manuals that color and odor are not reliable indicators of fluid condition.
I've heard that before and am not sure I believe in it. Dark ATF means it's been oxidized. If my ATF has turned dark, then I'm changing it.
I think if the fluid is light brown but clear with no burnt odor then it is probably OK, but I'd probably change it anyway. If it is dark brown, has a burnt odor or is not clear then it needs changed and hopefully no transmission damage has happened. There's also the blot test to check for oxidation. Place a drop on a paper towel and wait 30 seconds or so and it should spread out. If it doesn't it is oxidized for sure.
Kia and Hyundai both warn that SPIII fluid turns brown early and that brown color does not mean the fluid needs to be changed.
I usually go by mileage/time/smell. Every 30K/4 years.
I usually go by mileage/time/smell. Every 30K/4 years.
Critic - Not sure I'd take any Chrysler advice when it comes to transmissions.
WS is no wonder fluid but I'm sure it'll get you past the power-train warranty with a smooth shifting transmission. Remember when Toyota advertised by showing people driving their million mile Toyotas. They don't do that anymore but they do have "Lifetime" fluids.
I wouldn't be surprised if one early fluid change to get rid of the break-in wear particles was very beneficial to the transmission's lifespan.
WS is no wonder fluid but I'm sure it'll get you past the power-train warranty with a smooth shifting transmission. Remember when Toyota advertised by showing people driving their million mile Toyotas. They don't do that anymore but they do have "Lifetime" fluids.
I wouldn't be surprised if one early fluid change to get rid of the break-in wear particles was very beneficial to the transmission's lifespan.
FYI - Reviewed the 2010 Camry Scheduled Service Guide
http://smg.toyotapartsandservice(dot)com/index.php
Every 5,000 miles = Inspect and adjust all fluid levels
Every 30,000 miles = Inspect transmission fluid or Oil
Every 60,000 miles severe service (Towing, Car top carrier, heavy loads) = Replace transmission fluid or oil
Doesn't say "Lifetime" anywhere.
http://smg.toyotapartsandservice(dot)com/index.php
Every 5,000 miles = Inspect and adjust all fluid levels
Every 30,000 miles = Inspect transmission fluid or Oil
Every 60,000 miles severe service (Towing, Car top carrier, heavy loads) = Replace transmission fluid or oil
Doesn't say "Lifetime" anywhere.
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I have done my ATF fluid on my 2008 xB (WS Fluid) twice now, and doing it again in the next 5K miles... I did it at 17,500 and 30,000... I am currently at 45,000.
I like to do it every 15-20K, myself. It is half the work of an oil change, so why not. Pull the plug and refill. Easy as that.
I must say, my tranmission shifting is BUTTER smooth. I have yet to drive another car that felt as smooth as my xB. I don't know if that is from the constant changes (probably not! haha) or the quality of the AT, but I like the peace of mind that I am doing the upkeep on it. Fluid is still bright red and smells the same coming out as it does going in. Good sign.
I like to do it every 15-20K, myself. It is half the work of an oil change, so why not. Pull the plug and refill. Easy as that.
I must say, my tranmission shifting is BUTTER smooth. I have yet to drive another car that felt as smooth as my xB. I don't know if that is from the constant changes (probably not! haha) or the quality of the AT, but I like the peace of mind that I am doing the upkeep on it. Fluid is still bright red and smells the same coming out as it does going in. Good sign.
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I am not sure, but I can not imagine it being that much more difficult.
When you drain/fill on the xB, about 3.5qts come out... So 3.5qts go back in. I generally drain it into a dry oil catch pan, and then pour the liquid into a gallon jug that had quart dash lines marked out... This way I can see what exactly came out (it will be a hair less though) and just replace and check level. Has worked great so far.
When you drain/fill on the xB, about 3.5qts come out... So 3.5qts go back in. I generally drain it into a dry oil catch pan, and then pour the liquid into a gallon jug that had quart dash lines marked out... This way I can see what exactly came out (it will be a hair less though) and just replace and check level. Has worked great so far.
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