Toyota T-IV ATF in '05 Highlander - 20k miles

[dkryan]

This is from a sample I took over Memorial Day using my Pela 6000 extractor while the transmission fluid was quite warm. It had just completed a 300 mile run to central Illinois. Toyota claims this stuff is "10 yr/100k" under "normal" driving conditions, 60k under severe conditions, including towing. Bull!

Blackstone says:

This is likely the original fill of ATF in this unit so we aren't surprised to find the excess
wear and silicon. Both should improve with subsequent oil changes. You didn't mention if this oil was
changed or not but we suggest doing so if you haven't. The wear metals make the oil abrasive, which causes more wear. No moisture was found and the trace of insolubles is okay. The viscosity read in the normal range for an ATF. The TAN read 1.0 showing some acidity in the oil. Universal averages
for this type of transmission are based on an oil run of ~13K miles.

2005 Highlander, 20,368 miles, 5-spd auto transmission, OEM fill, my results/universal averages:

Aluminum 26/16
Chromium 1/0
Iron 64/33
Copper 23/68
Lead 2/13
Tin 1/2
Moly 0/1
Nickel 0/0
Manganese 4/1
Silver 0/0
Titanium 0/0
Potassium 2/1
Boron 37/53
Silicon 30/20
Sodium 7/4
Calcium 109/132
Magnesium 2/26
Phosphorus 258/282
Zinc 3/78
Barium 8/3

SUS viscosity at 210 F = 44.0 (should be 43-51)
Flashpoint = 355 (should be >330)
Water is zero
Insolubles was listed as "trace"

This vehicle is mostly driven by my wife and has seen 60/40 highway/city driving. I have Amsoil Universal ATF ready to go into it as soon as I find someone with a T-tec machine that will let me use my own ATF.

 

[unDummy]

Fluid sheared to 5.4 CST, which is normal for T-IV. ATF should be dumped when it shears 25%. Since T-IV is ~7.2cst, 3/4 of that is 5.4cst which means you are at the perfect mileage for a FULL flush!

Wear is normal for mileage. Looks scary but isn't too bad. The lack of real ATF filtration is a weakness for many transmissions. I would recommend installing a permacool or magnefine filter at your flush.

Some of the units get WS and others get T-IV. Does yours have a dipstick? drainplug?

With T-IV dropping under 6cst, makes me wonder why Toyota didn't backspec the WS for all the other transmissions. Additive packages of the WS and T-IV look close enough, and WS should maintain the 6cst for a long time.

Amsoil should serve you well.

 

[dkryan]

UnDummy,

Thanks for the response. I have a dipstick for the transmission but I'm uncertain as to the drainplug. As it is close to it's warranty mandated 5k OCI, I'll check when it's up on the rack. I don't recall having seen a drainplug when I had the diffs drained and refilled with Amsoil S2k at 5k miles.

I thought that T-IV was "in" for 2005 and WS was "in" for 2006 and later.(?)

Two questions: Should one not change out the ATF at around 10-12k miles to get rid of all of the break-in stuff? Also, with all factors in the future being constant (driving style, mileage, etc.) what's the liklihood this T-IV could go the distance, i.e., meet Toyota's 100k mile claim?

 

[unDummy]

T-IV higher mileage UOAs look horrible. IMO, there is no chance for almost any ATF to make 100k without real filtration and cooling. I truly don't believe that there is an OEM ATF that is that good. But, I'd wager that there might be a couple aftermarket ATFs that can go 100k.

ATF should be maintained. Early change out to remove break-in stuff is smart move. Or, regulary yearly or 10k drain/refills would be enough if there is a drainplug. Drain/refills are easier and cheaper then a flush and should suffice for most driving conditions.

 

[INDYMAC]

I really think that anyone considering keeping their Toyota longer than the warranty should consider getting away from the Toyota ATF's all together, as soon as possible. I used them for almost 8 years/130K miles in my Tundra, and the transmission never worked smoothly. I upgraded to AMSOIL ATD Torque Drive (Castrol Transynd clone) last week and the transmission works beautifully now. I think the ATD is a legitimate extended drain ATF as well. I wish I had upgraded sooner. There are other great ATF's out there to chose from too. So don't think you are locked into Toyota ATF. It is very substandard in my opinion.

 

[mikeg5]

what are some other good type 4's out there aside from amsoil?? i have an 02 v6 4x4 tacoma and has had dex3 all its life (90k miles).. looking to add some good atf fluid to it over time with drain and fills. the mechanic told me to bump up to type 4 though it called for type 3 (dexIII).. what atf has shown good #'s for yotas??

 

[Cooper]

If your Toyota calls for T-IV, why not just get T-IV from the dealer. I just purchased some for $4.16 a quart. That is $50 for a case. What ATF can you get for a cheaper price and still be a better fluid?

 

[The Critic]

Quote:

---

what are some other good type 4's out there aside from amsoil?? i have an 02 v6 4x4 tacoma and has had dex3 all its life (90k miles).. looking to add some good atf fluid to it over time with drain and fills. the mechanic told me to bump up to type 4 though it called for type 3 (dexIII).. what atf has shown good #'s for yotas??

---

If yours takes Dexron III, Dexron VI is the recommended upgrade. Dexron VI is far superior than mineral Dexron III. T-IV is meant for vehicles that were designed to use T-IV originally and should not be used in vehicles where it wasn't recommended originally.

 

[mikeg5]

he said in toyota terms "type III" is in there now and he said to go up to "Type 4"... i have no idea other than going to the yota dealership what this means in aftermarket terms

 

[The Critic]

A 02 Tacoma takes Dexron III. There's no such thing as Toyota T-III. The only Toyota T fluids that ever existed (or exist) are T, T-II, and the current T-IV. When he was referring to "Type III," he was referring to Dexron III.

 

[mikeg5]

oh ok thanks for the correction. so going up to dex4 would be wise or should i just stick with dex3? either way it will be drained and filled (4-5qts) every 10-20k miles

 

[The Critic]

Quote:

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oh ok thanks for the correction. so going up to dex4 would be wise or should i just stick with dex3? either way it will be drained and filled (4-5qts) every 10-20k miles

---

Just use Dex6 from now on. I would use Dex6 because Dex3 licenses are no longer being renewed. Read this GM press release that cautions against the usage of the Dex3 fluids that are still being produced:

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/DEXRON_VI_Service_Fill_Release_31MY07.doc

 

[unDummy]

Nothing but GM hogwash. They need to make money on their new license.

Also, remember that GM is the only automaker that has approved dexronVI. No other automaker has mentioned backwards compatibility with their product lines.

M1, RP, Ams, RL.....make excellent dexronIII's. And, Ford is still licensing their MerconV which would be a very cost effective upgrade over any DexronIII spec. MerconV adds better cold/hot performance(usually a synth blend), and improved shudder prevention. There is no Dexron4.

Lets try to keep the thread on track. This is a T-IV UOA. There is an ATF forum for other questions.

 

[mikeg5]

valvoline maxlife is approved for T-1 thru t-4, dexron III and Mercon V... so thats what i will run from now on.. if you have a T-4 type transmission fluid, you can use that too

 

[mikeg5]

oh and the only Mobile 1 synthetic ATF is the all vehicle type atf. would that be ok to run in DEXIII and or T-IV??

 

[The Critic]

M1 ATF is only recommended for use in Dex3, Mercon V, and ATF+4 applications.

 

[mikeg5]

there is a T-III btw.. read the back of the valvoline maxlife bottle. plus i called the toyota place and they said yeah there is a T-III and it is NOT dexIII

 

[The Critic]

I could be wrong, but I was told that T-IV supercedes all previous T type fluids. So while a T-III fluid may have existed in the past, T-IV is the correct fluid now. Still, your truck takes Dex3 or later. Check the manual.

 

[mikeg5]

yeah its dexIII so i went with valvoline maxlife atf in the red bottle. its good for all merc, dexIII and all toyota t's