My daughter will be in the market for a newer car this summer. She is interested in another Camry or a Lexus ES. Her budget will take us to late '90's/early 2000's, which is during their era of sludge-prone engines. Her budget will also take us into higher mileage cars as well. My question is this - if an engine was going to sludge because of the engines design or someone following a OCI longer than what they should have for this engine, when would the engine problem have shown itself? If one of these cars has 130K - 150K miles on the original engine, would it be safe to assume this engine was either well taken care of or not a problem engine? If I purchased one of these cars, would it best to do an Auto RX cleaning regardless?
Toyota / Lexus Sludging - Mileage
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I don't think that you can assume either 1. the engine was well-taken care of or 2. it will need cleaning. These engines were prone to sludging - but only if extended OCI or low-quality oil was used...so, look for meticulous maintenance records and look for yourself under the oil filler cap to get an idea....My truck is from the "sludge prone" era...and I can
guarantee that it is sludge-free...
I would get any car of that vintage thoroughly checked out.
guarantee that it is sludge-free...
I would get any car of that vintage thoroughly checked out.
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Having seen a lot of these engines i wouldn't touch one without taking it to the dealer and let them pull at least the front cover.
I say dealer because they may have a record of this engine being serviced for this issue which could have included a long block.
If the owner complains at you wanting to do this walk away.
ARX will not clean one of these,nothing short of taking it apart will,i know from experience on more than a few.
I say dealer because they may have a record of this engine being serviced for this issue which could have included a long block.
If the owner complains at you wanting to do this walk away.
ARX will not clean one of these,nothing short of taking it apart will,i know from experience on more than a few.
I would use Shell Rotella T5 10W30 with 1 quart MMO for a couple short OCI's of 3-4k miles. Shell Rotella T5 in 5qt jug and MMO can be bought at Walmart for reasonable price. After these two short OCI, I would use good syn oil for 6-8k OCI.
Is this a 1 owner car? What maintenance records do they have? The issue with the 1MZ-FE V6 3.0L engines was their PCV system (and the fact that the dealer rarely accounted for severe-service driving when scheduling drivers' next oil change. Oops!) . Toyota got a reputation for being a sludge company because this one model engine was used in so many different model cars. So with any 1MZ-FE engine check for records of oil changes and PCV valve changes. But short of popping off the valve cover or peeking around inside the oil cap (if this engine has one that allows you to see into the head) it's hard to be 100% certain.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I don't think that you can assume either 1. the engine was well-taken care of or 2. it will need cleaning. These engines were prone to sludging - but only if extended OCI or low-quality oil was used...so, look for meticulous maintenance records and look for yourself under the oil filler cap to get an idea....My truck is from the "sludge prone" era...and I can
guarantee that it is sludge-free...
I would get any car of that vintage thoroughly checked out.
You can't really see under the filler cap as there is a baffle there. In fact if you look under the filler cap, you many think that it's sludged but you're actually seeing the baffle which is black in color. If I were really considering one of these cars, I'd take it to a mechanic and pay to have the valve cover removed and replaced..
I don't think that you can assume either 1. the engine was well-taken care of or 2. it will need cleaning. These engines were prone to sludging - but only if extended OCI or low-quality oil was used...so, look for meticulous maintenance records and look for yourself under the oil filler cap to get an idea....My truck is from the "sludge prone" era...and I can
guarantee that it is sludge-free...
I would get any car of that vintage thoroughly checked out.
You can't really see under the filler cap as there is a baffle there. In fact if you look under the filler cap, you many think that it's sludged but you're actually seeing the baffle which is black in color. If I were really considering one of these cars, I'd take it to a mechanic and pay to have the valve cover removed and replaced..
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
I guess my suggestion could get expensive.
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
I guess my suggestion could get expensive.
You can't tell by looking in the oil cap, because they have a baffle that's already covered in black "tar" which looks like sludge, but it's really not...
Originally Posted By: dparm
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
haha this is out of the blue and totally unrelated but I am a Toyota fan. hahaha not that it means anything...lol
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
haha this is out of the blue and totally unrelated but I am a Toyota fan. hahaha not that it means anything...lol
FWIW, If you do buy a car with a suspected sludged up engine. you may want to consider 3 or 4 3,000 mile oci's with Mobil 1. I say this beacuase a I bout a BMW x5 2.5 yrs ago and the elderly women that had it didn't know what an oil change was. I did the first change immediatly and it came out like brown pudding. I ran that oil for 500 miles changed dirty as heck. then did 3 more changes with m1 at 3000 miles and it cleaned it up. then go to 7000-10000 oci. I asked My inde maechanic to pull the valve cover recently when it was in and he said it was as clean as a whistle I bought it wit 82,000 it almost has 140,000 miles. Good Luck!
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If the owner doesn't have the records, if you have the VIN, you can create an account on Toyota or Lexus's Owner's site and access the dealer maintenance records.
You could also do this by calling the dealer, however, for privacy reasons it maybe hit or miss if they release the information to you
until you show up with the car and proof of ownership (registration).
That being said, like the other guy said, it's just a small series of engine, so if you're worried about sludge, just make sure you get the model that falls out of the sludge range(e.g. es330?).
You could also do this by calling the dealer, however, for privacy reasons it maybe hit or miss if they release the information to you
until you show up with the car and proof of ownership (registration).
That being said, like the other guy said, it's just a small series of engine, so if you're worried about sludge, just make sure you get the model that falls out of the sludge range(e.g. es330?).
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Maintenance records can be faked. If you have your heart set on buying one of these I would suggest viewing the maintenance records and then backing them up with what Trav said above. These engines can easily become your headache, and an expensive one at that, if you fail to thoroughly check them out. If the seller doesn't like the idea, pass on the deal.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
Yeah then you have automatic transmission problems.
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
Yeah then you have automatic transmission problems.
The sludge issue happened on a VERY small percentage of a VERY large number of motors that were used in many different Toyota and Lexus vehicles.
I have the 1MZFE motor in my 2003 Sienna.
As mentioned, removing the oil fill cap and looking in will give you a view of a baffel that was coated at the factory with a rough black material that looks like baked on sludge.
It was some sort of sound deadening stuff.
THIS IS NOT SLUDGE.
With this motor, it is CRITICAL to keep the PCV valve from clogging.
The PCV valve is hard to see......it is located in the rear valve cover.....toward the passenger side.
Mine is almost covered by the intake manifold/throttle body ("accustical tuned intake").
In 2003, they went to a metal PCV valve that screws into the valve cover and also improved the baffels inside the valve cover.
2002 and older had the traditional PCV valve that presses into a grommet in the rear valve cover (same location).
Maybe if you can reach back there and pull the PCV valve out and see if the end that is in the valve cover is covered with junk.
If it is blocked......then I would walk away from the vehicle.
If it is not blocked, then you have a good chance of being OK.
These are very good vehicles, but as with ANY used vehicle......each is a case by case situation.
I have the 1MZFE motor in my 2003 Sienna.
As mentioned, removing the oil fill cap and looking in will give you a view of a baffel that was coated at the factory with a rough black material that looks like baked on sludge.
It was some sort of sound deadening stuff.
THIS IS NOT SLUDGE.
With this motor, it is CRITICAL to keep the PCV valve from clogging.
The PCV valve is hard to see......it is located in the rear valve cover.....toward the passenger side.
Mine is almost covered by the intake manifold/throttle body ("accustical tuned intake").
In 2003, they went to a metal PCV valve that screws into the valve cover and also improved the baffels inside the valve cover.
2002 and older had the traditional PCV valve that presses into a grommet in the rear valve cover (same location).
Maybe if you can reach back there and pull the PCV valve out and see if the end that is in the valve cover is covered with junk.
If it is blocked......then I would walk away from the vehicle.
If it is not blocked, then you have a good chance of being OK.
These are very good vehicles, but as with ANY used vehicle......each is a case by case situation.
Taking the value cover off is the only way to tell if there's sludge in the engine. Personally, I've a 00 Camry 5s-fe (minor sludge bucket) with 132k miles and I don't think there's any sludge in the engine with only 4-5k OCI with PYB.
They're good cars, but used cars are only as good as their owners. Good luck on your search.
They're good cars, but used cars are only as good as their owners. Good luck on your search.
We had a 1998 Lexus ES300 in the family for quite a few years and ran it from 60,000-200,000 miles without any serious problems. Needed a cat around 175 as well as new shocks. Other than that always ran great, and from 75k on always saw Valvoline max life syn-blend at 3-5k oci's. I can't say there was no sludge but I can say it always ran smooth and never gave us any problems, really reliable car.
Originally Posted By: mac9128
We had a 1998 Lexus ES300 in the family for quite a few years and ran it from 60,000-200,000 miles without any serious problems. Needed a cat around 175 as well as new shocks. Other than that always ran great, and from 75k on always saw Valvoline max life syn-blend at 3-5k oci's. I can't say there was no sludge but I can say it always ran smooth and never gave us any problems, really reliable car.
You were most likely using Regular unleaded fuel for that to happen.
We had a 1998 Lexus ES300 in the family for quite a few years and ran it from 60,000-200,000 miles without any serious problems. Needed a cat around 175 as well as new shocks. Other than that always ran great, and from 75k on always saw Valvoline max life syn-blend at 3-5k oci's. I can't say there was no sludge but I can say it always ran smooth and never gave us any problems, really reliable car.
You were most likely using Regular unleaded fuel for that to happen.
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: dparm
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
Yeah then you have automatic transmission problems.
Lol..Diet Pepsi just squirted out my nose...thanks.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Good maintenance records (proper OCI with quality oil) or you walk away. I would recommend you convince her to go for a competitor's vehicle that does NOT have said problems. Plenty of nice used Accords/Acura TLs out there.
Yeah then you have automatic transmission problems.
Lol..Diet Pepsi just squirted out my nose...thanks.
Look under the oil cap. That's the bet way to tell other than pulling the valve cover. If it is bad run MMO at the end of each oil change.
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