Toyota coolant for Camry dnf or flush

[Built_Well]

Okay MaximaGuy, I'll buy new gallons, just in case.

Hmm, I just noticed a bit of an inconsistency. The CD of Toyota's repair manual for the Camry seems to indicate the radiator's capacity is 6.6 quarts since the directions are

:

"(b) Add the engine coolant into the radiator until it overflows.
Capacity: 6.6 U.S. quarts"

But my 2006 Owner's Manual for the Camry says on Page 336 that the *total* capacity of the Cooling System is 6.6 quarts.

Oh well, I'll just assume that the radiator's fluid capacity is roughly 40 percent of the entire cooling system's capacity (radiator, engine, heater core, hoses, etc.).

So I'll assume on the first drain-and-fill of the radiator, 60 percent of the old coolant in the entire system will remain. Doing some quick calculations on a piece of paper, I see it will take 4 drain-and-fills to reach the point where only 13 percent (12.96) of the old coolant remains.

So:

After 1 d&f, 60 percent of old coolant remains.
After 2 d&fs, 36 percent of old coolant remains.
After 3 d&fs, 22 percent of old coolant remains (21.6 %).
After 4 d&fs, 13 percent of old coolant remains (12.96 %).
After 5 d&fs, 8 percent of old coolant remains (7.776 &).

Now for the rough calculations:
After 6 d&fs, very roughly 4 percent of the old coolant remains.
After 7 d&fs, very roughly 2.6 percent of old coolant remains.
After 8 d&fs, very roughly 1.6 percent of old coolant remains.
After 9 d&fs, very roughly 1 percent of old coolant remains.

Is there any problem running with 13 percent of the old coolant in your car after 4 d&fs? Or will I have to be a masochist and get it down to 1 percent and do 9 d&fs?

I don't intend to open the Engine Block's drain plug, or do a flush. I'm going to keep it simple and just do radiator drain-and-fills. Probably 4 d&fs this year, and another 4 d&fs next year. What do you all think? Reasonable strategy or not?

 

[Built_Well]

Something just occurred to me. Does Toyota recommend a complete, 100-percent replacement of the Super Long Life pink coolant after 10 years, or just a partial replacement of the coolant after 10 years (for example, a single D&F of the radiator in the tenth year)?

After the factory fill change is performed in the tenth year, Toyota says follow up every 5 years with another change. So Toyota's recommendation must NOT be for a full 100-percent replacement of coolant in the tenth year, otherwise they wouldn't recommend a follow-up in 5 years, but in 10 years, since 100-percent all-new coolant should be able to last another full 10 years.

If Toyota simply recommends a partial repalcement (like a single D&F of the radiator) in the tenth year, then driving around with 60 percent old coolant which has reached 15 years of age in the 15th year must mean this stuff is Super, Super-Dooper Long Life? Am I thinking about this right?

 

[MaximaGuy]

Built_Well: If you did a D&F for the radiator that is all that you need, if you desire do it 2 times and end of story for another 100K, you really don't need to get all of it out.

Now there are 2 plugs on the block, you could use them to drain the coolant out of the block.

Either option is fine but the latter is the clean way to do it.

 

[Kira]

Hello,
I just cleaned the cooling system in a 2003 6 cyl.
The two engine block drain plugs were mentioned in a Chilton manual.
The more forward of the two came out easily and yielded little coolant.
The rear plug chattered and resisted as I turned it so I let it be.
I used Zerex Asian. It's pink in color. People here gave it good reviews.
Kira

 

[MaximaGuy]

The other way would be drain the coolant off the radiator. Take off the top hose to the block and blow compressed air through the top hose, this will push out all the coolant in the block back to the radiator whose drain is unplugged. Once no coolant comes off the radiator then you know there is no coolant in the block and radiator -- the system is almost dry but with air all over.

Then fill new coolant into the block via the upper hose till coolant fills block and the radiator via the bottom hose, once coolant overflows from the radiator cap, put back the radiator cap, now reconnect upper hose, put back the radiator cap and then run the engine with the radiator cap off. Run it for 20 min, every air pocket will be out. Keep checking level or overfill overflow tank and you are done.

 

[Built_Well]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
Built_Well: If you did a D&F for the radiator that is all that you need, if you desire, do it 2 times and end of story for another 100K, you really don't need to get all of it out.

Now there are 2 plugs on the block, you could use them to drain the coolant out of the block.

Either option is fine but the latter is the clean way to do it.


MaximaGuy, thanks for the great advice! I'll do one radiator D&F this week, and probably a second D&F next year. And playing it safe, I might do a third D&F in 5 years time.

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
The other way would be drain the coolant off the radiator. Take off the top hose to the block and blow compressed air through the top hose, this will push out all the coolant in the block back to the radiator whose drain is unplugged. Once no coolant comes off the radiator then you know there is no coolant in the block and radiator -- the system is almost dry but with air all over

Oh that's a novel and clever way to do a complete drain and fill of both the block and radiator, and avoid messing with the block's drain plugs. Not sure if that would be considered a flush or not, since no distilled water being used. Clever.

I think on the Camry's 2AZ-FE engine, one would have to remove the thermostat from the thermostat housing and reinstall the thermostat housing empty (without thermostat) for that clever D&F method to work on the Camry because the Chilton Manual shows the lower radiator hose connecting to the thermostat housing which leads into the engine, and the thermostat would be closed with a cold engine. I just read last night somewhere that when the engine is running, hot coolant is expelled into the radiator from the upper radiator hose. And that was News to Me! And I mention it here so I won't forget!

 

[supton]

First fill is good for 100k then Toyota says 50k for subsequent changes? Seems to imply that they don't expect full exchange either, and thus call for shorter interval on that basis.

 

[Built_Well]

Well I did a radiator drain-and-fill today. Happy to report that the nylon or plastic petcock unscrewed by hand easily with no effort at all. I guess I got roughly 4.7 quarts of used coolant out of the Camry's radiator, and transferred it from the big green Blitz drain pan to a couple empty gallon containers of milk. Will drop it off at my municipal water treatment center soon. Didn't need to connect a hose to the drain spout after all (the 3/8-inch hose I bought was too wide anyway).

You definitely want to wear protective eyewear and gloves when working with coolant. Splish splash, in your eye is a real danger. That stuff is pretty but lethal and corrosive.

The clerk at the Weiss dealership discounted the 2 jugs down to 19 each, instead of the $22 they told me over the phone. Why would they do that? This clerk had never seen me, and didn't know my name to check my sales history. The Machens dealership once discounted some ATF for me too. They quote you one price over the phone but discount the item in person. I bet this happens a lot at dealerships, but I don't know why.

It would be nice if the Toyota jugs had a window to see how much total coolant you put in. The jugs have measurement lines on the side but are missing the window. Odd. So I had to weigh the jugs to get an idea how much coolant I added. An empty 1-gallon jug of Toyota Super Long Life pink Coolant weighs about 0.25 pounds. The weight of a full jug (jug and coolant) is about 9.25 pounds, so a gallon of coolant weighs about 9 pounds.

Bought 2 jugs. Used one completely, and the second partially.
The partially used jug weighed in at about 7.25 pounds, so that means I added about one quart from the partially used jug. So all together from the 2 jugs, I added about 5 quarts of coolant to the radiator and the reservoir tank.

Before I brought the coolant in the overflow reservoir tank to the Full Line, the coolant level in the reservoir was about midway between the Low Line and the Full Line. IF the radiator accepted as much coolant as I drained out (roughly 4.7 quarts), that means I added about 0.3 quarts to the half-empty reservoir to bring the reservoir to the full line.

The old coolant that drained out was pink like the new coolant, and I didn't notice any gunk or grit in the drain pan.

 

[Built_Well]

Forgot to add:

IF the radiator is 6.6 quarts, why was I only able to drain 4.7 quarts out of it? The car was on ramps. Could tilting the car up a little somehow prevented the radiator's other 2 quarts from draining?

 

[Built_Well]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Again I can only speak to my experience, but the heater core was a non issue for me. The dealer service manual did not have any steps to purge any air, and though I started the car with the radiator cap off I added very little (perhaps 10 oz) coolant to top it off.

For my vehicle the radiator cap was above the heater lines, the heater in my car is actually in the middle of the center console not behind the glove box like it would be in a truck or vehicle designed without a center console.

I don't seem to have any air pocket burping problems with my car either, and I kept the radiator cap closed the whole time I let the car idle cold and hot, as per Toyota's instruction. But here's an interesting BITOG thread from 10 years ago started by someone who did have air probs with their car:

http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=550621

Found these threads too:

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/107-ca...ing-system.html

http://toyotarepair3.blogspot.com/2011/05/how-to-burp-toyota-coolant-system.html

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_blee...a_Ford_Windstar

I'd really caution folks to be very careful when squeezing the upper and lower radiator hoses with the radiator cap off, because just a tad too hard a squeeze will mean coolant splashing out of the top radiator hole, even with the car completely cold for hours. Keep your eye on the uncapped radiator hole when very gently squeezing the radiator hoses.

Also, if you decide to idle the car with the radiator cap off (something I didn't do or need to do), the last thread I linked to above says coolant will start splashing out helter skelter when the thermostat opens. The fella says half-a-gallon of coolant could splash out!

Keeping the radiator cap on/closed while idling is safer and will also burp out air. That's the empty air you see at the top of the radiator hole after the coolant has been drawn into the system and air was expelled to the top of the radiator when you turned on your car to idle with the radiator cap on/closed.

Paraphrasing from the last thread: When the coolant level in the radiator drops while idling with the radiator cap on/closed, that's air bubbles "in the system being driven to the top of the radiator." The air will then escape from the radiator after you shut down the car and open the radiator cap. Let the car cool down first before opening the radiator cap. "Without the air, there's more room for coolant."

I'm talking to my fellow novices above. You pro's are welcome to keep the radiator cap off/open while idling, but I can see that as a major hazard for us novices. And my Toyota manual say to keep the cap closed/on while idling.

Wow, protective eyewear and gloves are a must. Working with coolant can be a lot messier than working with oil. I found it really helpful while adding coolant into the Camry's top radiator hole to cover with absorbent shop towels that shiny metal protective cover that's located behind the fan and a little below the top radiator hole. Without the absorbent towels, coolant overflowing from the top hole will splash on that metal protective cover and go all over, landing on hoses, fans, the exhaust manifold, the plastic skirt, just everywhere. But remember to remove the shop towel before turning on your car, just in case the fans come on and suck the towels inside the fan.

I let my car idle for 10 minutes and the fans still didn't turn on. You don't need the fans to turn on. You just need the thermostat to open. After warming up the car in idle 2 or 3 times, I took the car for a drive. While the car was on a steep hill, I jerked the car back and forth by applying the brakes to help remove any airpockets. Not sure if that's a sound procedure or not though. Chuckle.

 

[Built_Well]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Again I can only speak to my experience, but the heater core was a non issue for me. The dealer service manual did not have any steps to purge any air, and though I started the car with the radiator cap off I added very little (perhaps 10 oz) coolant to top it off.

Bepperb, did you close your radiator cap before the car's thermostat opened?

 

[MaximaGuy]

You need to run the car inclined for 20m w/ radiator cap off to purge the air off the system, air naturally will bubble out from the cap, it is quite obvious there will be quite a lot of air when it is run uncompressed (uncompressed is when the cap is off).

 

[Built_Well]

Originally Posted By: MaximaGuy
You need to run the car inclined for 20m w/ radiator cap off to purge the air off the system, air naturally will bubble out from the cap, it is quite obvious there will be quite a lot of air when it is run uncompressed (uncompressed is when the cap is off).

Why does Toyota recommend to run with the radiator cap on? Nevertheless, next time I'll follow your advice MaximaGuy, and run with the cap off.

You said to run for 20 minutes, so at what point in time do you think the thermostat will open? 10th min, 15th min? When the thermostat does open, someone at one of my links, said coolant will start flowing out of the open radiator hoLe a lot. Is this accurate?

And someone else at a different link wrote NOT to turn the car off when coolant starts coming out of the radiator hole, because then coolant will really start flying out of the radiator hole. That person said to place the radiator cap on first, then shut off the car.

It's hard to know what to do with conflicting advice.

 

[MaximaGuy]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well


You said to run for 20 minutes, so at what point in time do you think the thermostat will open? 10th min, 15th min? When the thermostat does open, someone at one of my links, said coolant will start flowing out of the open radiator hoLe a lot. Is this accurate?


The thermostat will open whenever it wants to open you care less. When hot coolant is bubbling at the mouth of the radiator you know coolant is flowing through the block and back to the radiator. Simple, it could be 30m in Canada and 10m in baking Vegas and 5m in Kuwait (where it could reach 130 degrees)