Toyota 5.7L, 0w-20 noisy, STP to thicken?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by LS_Powah
Picked up a used Toyota Tundra Platinum with a high mileage 5.7L 3UR-FE. This truck has over 150,000 miles going between Arizona and the pacific northwest (snowbird) and looks nearly new. It will *not* be a daily driver; just when I need a truck. Toyota.com online service history shows great dealer service visits, mileage, and dates. Toyota wants 0w20 syn in this four cam motor, and is OK with 5w20 syn with their VVTi system. I changed the oil first time after my new to me purchase and used 8+ quarts (yes it specs 8) Mobil 1 0w20. Those four cams are super noisy with 0w till it warms up...even starting at 70F. It was cold dead silent upon purchase and right up until I changed the oil. It is not uncommon to put 5w30 in these trucks, so that is what I suspect was in it. I live in Idaho, so teens/rarely single digits cold, but not Alaska cold. 5w will flow down to -30C, we likely won't hit -10C, so I got no problem going to 5w20.

I will definitely change to M1 5w20 HM next OCI.

So here is my question. I want to thicken this brand new 0w20 to cut the cold start noise (and cold start wear). It went from dead silent when cold, to a four cam rattle trap after M1 0w20 was put in (OEM Toyota oil filter). I was thinking STP Synthetic oil treatment or a bit of M1 80w90 gear oil. What say the group?

You say 0-20 causes more engine wear on start. Actually you are wrong about that. True, most engine wear occurs at start, but a 0wt oil produces less wear at start than thicker oil(especially in cold temps).
 
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by LS_Powah
Picked up a used Toyota Tundra Platinum with a high mileage 5.7L 3UR-FE. This truck has over 150,000 miles going between Arizona and the pacific northwest (snowbird) and looks nearly new. It will *not* be a daily driver; just when I need a truck. Toyota.com online service history shows great dealer service visits, mileage, and dates. Toyota wants 0w20 syn in this four cam motor, and is OK with 5w20 syn with their VVTi system. I changed the oil first time after my new to me purchase and used 8+ quarts (yes it specs 8) Mobil 1 0w20. Those four cams are super noisy with 0w till it warms up...even starting at 70F. It was cold dead silent upon purchase and right up until I changed the oil. It is not uncommon to put 5w30 in these trucks, so that is what I suspect was in it. I live in Idaho, so teens/rarely single digits cold, but not Alaska cold. 5w will flow down to -30C, we likely won't hit -10C, so I got no problem going to 5w20.

I will definitely change to M1 5w20 HM next OCI.

So here is my question. I want to thicken this brand new 0w20 to cut the cold start noise (and cold start wear). It went from dead silent when cold, to a four cam rattle trap after M1 0w20 was put in (OEM Toyota oil filter). I was thinking STP Synthetic oil treatment or a bit of M1 80w90 gear oil. What say the group?

You say 0-20 causes more engine wear on start. Actually you are wrong about that. True, most engine wear occurs at start, but a 0wt oil produces less wear at start than thicker oil(especially in cold temps).



Not necessarily true. I don't believe it.
 
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by LS_Powah
Picked up a used Toyota Tundra Platinum with a high mileage 5.7L 3UR-FE. This truck has over 150,000 miles going between Arizona and the pacific northwest (snowbird) and looks nearly new. It will *not* be a daily driver; just when I need a truck. Toyota.com online service history shows great dealer service visits, mileage, and dates. Toyota wants 0w20 syn in this four cam motor, and is OK with 5w20 syn with their VVTi system. I changed the oil first time after my new to me purchase and used 8+ quarts (yes it specs 8) Mobil 1 0w20. Those four cams are super noisy with 0w till it warms up...even starting at 70F. It was cold dead silent upon purchase and right up until I changed the oil. It is not uncommon to put 5w30 in these trucks, so that is what I suspect was in it. I live in Idaho, so teens/rarely single digits cold, but not Alaska cold. 5w will flow down to -30C, we likely won't hit -10C, so I got no problem going to 5w20.

I will definitely change to M1 5w20 HM next OCI.

So here is my question. I want to thicken this brand new 0w20 to cut the cold start noise (and cold start wear). It went from dead silent when cold, to a four cam rattle trap after M1 0w20 was put in (OEM Toyota oil filter). I was thinking STP Synthetic oil treatment or a bit of M1 80w90 gear oil. What say the group?

You say 0-20 causes more engine wear on start. Actually you are wrong about that. True, most engine wear occurs at start, but a 0wt oil produces less wear at start than thicker oil(especially in cold temps).



Not necessarily true. I don't believe it.


Especially to the upper end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII
 
Here is a pretty good graph of Mobil 1 0w20 vs 0w40 vs 5w30 for cold viscosity. If the lowest viscosity and flow were the driving factors for engine protection during cold starts, then a 0w40 oil would simply not exist, as a 5w30 closely matches it.
But since a 5w30 cannot be labeled as a 0w oil, because it will not pass the MRV and CCV limits for 0w rating, there is obviously more to cold start protection than viscosity and flow.

A 0w is not a flow or thickness spec. People should educate themselves about how the winter rating is obtained and the tests that lead to it.

Oil Viscosity.jpg
 
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by LS_Powah
Picked up a used Toyota Tundra Platinum with a high mileage 5.7L 3UR-FE. This truck has over 150,000 miles going between Arizona and the pacific northwest (snowbird) and looks nearly new. It will *not* be a daily driver; just when I need a truck. Toyota.com online service history shows great dealer service visits, mileage, and dates. Toyota wants 0w20 syn in this four cam motor, and is OK with 5w20 syn with their VVTi system. I changed the oil first time after my new to me purchase and used 8+ quarts (yes it specs 8) Mobil 1 0w20. Those four cams are super noisy with 0w till it warms up...even starting at 70F. It was cold dead silent upon purchase and right up until I changed the oil. It is not uncommon to put 5w30 in these trucks, so that is what I suspect was in it. I live in Idaho, so teens/rarely single digits cold, but not Alaska cold. 5w will flow down to -30C, we likely won't hit -10C, so I got no problem going to 5w20.

I will definitely change to M1 5w20 HM next OCI.

So here is my question. I want to thicken this brand new 0w20 to cut the cold start noise (and cold start wear). It went from dead silent when cold, to a four cam rattle trap after M1 0w20 was put in (OEM Toyota oil filter). I was thinking STP Synthetic oil treatment or a bit of M1 80w90 gear oil. What say the group?

You say 0-20 causes more engine wear on start. Actually you are wrong about that. True, most engine wear occurs at start, but a 0wt oil produces less wear at start than thicker oil(especially in cold temps).



Not necessarily true. I don't believe it.


Especially to the upper end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWiQyR7PWII



Well, that was a rigged video. Synthetic blend 0W30 vs conventional 15W40 and 10W30 at -35 degrees. SMH
 
Originally Posted by Brigadier


Well, that was a rigged video. Synthetic blend 0W30 vs conventional 15W40 and 10W30 at -35 degrees. SMH


That video is an excellent demonstration of the importance of winter rating. And yes, it was intentionally tested against oils that had the winter rating not suited for the tested temperature of -35 C.

But most start confusing this with oil thickness and flow or synthetic vs conventional. Notice lack of 5w30 in that test?
 
Unrealistically cold temperatures for the lower 48 do not prove the point.. that is as pseudo science as a Timken test.
That video illustrates what happens when the wrong grade of oil is used in extreme cold temperatures, it is not analogous to less severe startup temperatures. For example 10 f .
Your lubrication system is pumped. The same volume of oil is pumped into the engine per revolution if it is a 15 w50 or a 0w20 as long as the temperature is appropriate . Therefore increased start up wear
protection for the 0w20 is only on the margins, most drivers will never see.
 
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Here is a pretty good graph of Mobil 1 0w20 vs 0w40 vs 5w30 for cold viscosity. If the lowest viscosity and flow were the driving factors for engine protection during cold starts, then a 0w40 oil would simply not exist, as a 5w30 closely matches it.
But since a 5w30 cannot be labeled as a 0w oil, because it will not pass the MRV and CCV limits for 0w rating, there is obviously more to cold start protection than viscosity and flow.

A 0w is not a flow or thickness spec. People should educate themselves about how the winter rating is obtained and the tests that lead to it.


Remember, viscosity calculators are not accurate much below 0C, so what that graph shows is not indicative of the actual behaviour of the fluids. A 0W-xx thickens less as temperature drops, it has to to meet the CCS and MRV requirements.
 
Just to further reinforce the above:

Mobil's PAO 6 when plugged into the visc calculator shows:
-40C: 12,162cSt
-35C: 6,300cSt

When the PDS for the product actually indicates that the product is 7,400cSt at -40C, which, since visc roughly halves for every 5C increment makes it ~3,700cSt at -35C...etc.

Mobil's SpectraSyn PAO 8 when plugged into the visc calculator shows:
-40C: 33,262cSt
-35C: 16,309cSt

When the PDS for the product actually indicates that the product is 19,000cSt at -40C, which, as per the above means that it is around 9,500cSt @ -35C....etc.

Base oils that aren't PAO and utilize PPD's, not even factoring in the behaviour of VII's, mean even greater departures from what the calculator shows.
 
Thanks overkill, I realize the calculator is not accurate below 0C. But, it can visually show how the graphs are going. I agree that I should've included 0w oils for the comparison, to make it more relevant. The values themselves are not all the relevant, but difference between them are for visualization sake.

We can all agree that a 0w20 will be much, much thinner than a 0w40. And form the looks of it, it's over half as thick at 9200cSt vs 21000 cSt (looking at M1 oils), so if flow and pressure were the primary factors in cold start protection, a 0w40 would fail miserably when compared to 0w20.

I'm trying to demonstrate that this isn't so.
 
Last edited:
For sure, that's why the limits are set as they are for CCS and MRV, as those have tested to be the limits as they stand.

I think when one compares to other W ratings, if visc was graphed using non-calculated values below 0C, you'd find that the 0W-xx oils plot far more flatter than what they do via a calculator, as the numbers from the PAO bases I posted demonstrate. Oils using wax-containing bases will drop off a cliff once they hit the crystallization point, which is an extremely abrupt occurrence.
 
Likewise, I switched from M1 0W-20 to Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 and my cold startup lifter tick almost disappeared. Then, I added STP Synthetic Oil Treatment and now it's completely gone.
 
Originally Posted by proffittmarke
Likewise, I switched from M1 0W-20 to Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 and my cold startup lifter tick almost disappeared. Then, I added STP Synthetic Oil Treatment and now it's completely gone.

Tick n my 2GR-FE is really going on my nerves. I forgot why I stop using Mobil1 in my VW's.
Next OCI switching to something else. I know for engine performance and longevity it does not make difference, but seriously it is annoying.
 
Or Hyundai Santa Fe piston slaps on Mobil 1, but doesn't on Valvoline Full Synthetic Maxlife. I'm only using Mobil 1 right now because I got it on Autozone clearance.
 
Originally Posted by LS_Powah
Picked up a used Toyota Tundra Platinum with a high mileage 5.7L 3UR-FE. This truck has over 150,000 miles going between Arizona and the pacific northwest (snowbird) and looks nearly new. It will *not* be a daily driver; just when I need a truck. Toyota.com online service history shows great dealer service visits, mileage, and dates. Toyota wants 0w20 syn in this four cam motor, and is OK with 5w20 syn with their VVTi system. I changed the oil first time after my new to me purchase and used 8+ quarts (yes it specs 8) Mobil 1 0w20. Those four cams are super noisy with 0w till it warms up...even starting at 70F. It was cold dead silent upon purchase and right up until I changed the oil. It is not uncommon to put 5w30 in these trucks, so that is what I suspect was in it. I live in Idaho, so teens/rarely single digits cold, but not Alaska cold. 5w will flow down to -30C, we likely won't hit -10C, so I got no problem going to 5w20.

I will definitely change to M1 5w20 HM next OCI.

So here is my question. I want to thicken this brand new 0w20 to cut the cold start noise (and cold start wear). It went from dead silent when cold, to a four cam rattle trap after M1 0w20 was put in (OEM Toyota oil filter). I was thinking STP Synthetic oil treatment or a bit of M1 80w90 gear oil. What say the group?


I don't understand. I just purchased a new 2019 Toyota Tundra and it has this same engine. It has 0w20 in it from the factory. I have no odd sounds at all. Dead silent, buttery smooth. Is this something that happens as this engine ages? If my 5.7 doesn't make any weird sound with 0w20, then why does yours? Doesn't make sense unless it is an age thing, right?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Or Hyundai Santa Fe piston slaps on Mobil 1, but doesn't on Valvoline Full Synthetic Maxlife. I'm only using Mobil 1 right now because I got it on Autozone clearance.

After Mobi1 0W40 FS was watered down, same as new Mobil1 5W30 ESP, I am truly thinking they are using brand name to squeeze out as much profit as possible. Would not be first time that great company does that and in 10 years we ask ourselves: what happened?
 
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Or Hyundai Santa Fe piston slaps on Mobil 1, but doesn't on Valvoline Full Synthetic Maxlife. I'm only using Mobil 1 right now because I got it on Autozone clearance.


Then it probably doesn't slap. Piston slap is the result of excessive piston to bore clearance, which no oil is going to magically rectify unless they come with a set of pistons closer to the diameter of the bores.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Or Hyundai Santa Fe piston slaps on Mobil 1, but doesn't on Valvoline Full Synthetic Maxlife. I'm only using Mobil 1 right now because I got it on Autozone clearance.
Then it probably doesn't slap. Piston slap is the result of excessive piston to bore clearance, which no oil is going to magically rectify unless they come with a set of pistons closer to the diameter of the bores.

Correct. My old Honda has noticeable piston slap and the choice of oil or viscosity has no influence on the noise whatsoever.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Or Hyundai Santa Fe piston slaps on Mobil 1, but doesn't on Valvoline Full Synthetic Maxlife. I'm only using Mobil 1 right now because I got it on Autozone clearance.

After Mobi1 0W40 FS was watered down, same as new Mobil1 5W30 ESP, I am truly thinking they are using brand name to squeeze out as much profit as possible. Would not be first time that great company does that and in 10 years we ask ourselves: what happened?


How was it watered down? Because it no longer carries LL-01? Neither does Shell's 0w-40. I find it bizarre that SOPUS gets praise from the heavens for using GTL and then when Mobil uses the same product they are "cheapening their brand" or "watering it down" or whatever other conjecture-fuelled catch phrase fits the narrative of the excrement tossing
21.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

OrangePild
Lexus GX 460 185k mi Advice sought here
Replies
19
Views
4K
Chief119
Hillbilly Deluxe
Moving from 0W-20 to 5W-30 in late model Toyotas
3 4 5
Replies
86
Views
14K
ARCOgraphite
R
Napa Proformer Oil Filter and M1 5w20
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
Nesterenko
IcarusLSC
0w20 vs 5w20 for 2014 300C AWD with 5.7L Hemi?!
2
Replies
38
Views
7K
pjc360
j_sousa
Toyota 0W-20 in a 1997 Corolla (4A-FE engine)?
2
Replies
27
Views
8K
Gokhan
Back
Top