Toyota 5.7L, 0w-20 noisy, STP to thicken?

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by chainblu
Some of you guys act like the difference between 0w20 and 5w30 is like water and molasses. It ain't so. 5w30 is only 10-12% thicker than Xw20 and as far as I'm concerned, falls into the THIN OIL category.


I've been in nearly a thousand auto part stores in the past 20 years. Never seen an oil jug that read Xw20.
C'mon BITOGers! Just stop the shortcut Xw nonsense please! Very easy to use that numerical keyboard on your phones.

 

[klt1986]

I have been running 5w-30 Pennzoil Platinum in my 2011 Tundra with the 5.7L. Seems to perform well. The 5.7L engine will run great on 5w-30 oil. The Lexus LX570 has the same engine and 5w-30 is recommended in it overseas.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by LS_Powah


...I will definitely change to M1 5w20 HM next OCI.

So here is my question. I want to thicken this brand new 0w20 to cut the cold start noise (and cold start wear). It went from dead silent when cold, to a four cam rattle trap after M1 0w20 was put in (OEM Toyota oil filter). I was thinking STP Synthetic oil treatment or a bit of M1 80w90 gear oil. What say the group?



Adding STP is no. Adding gear oil is sure way to accelerate bearing corrosion from quick acid buildup and leads to failure. Don't do it.

Go up to 5W20 or a 5W30 and save up for an engine rebuild to replace worn out components.

 

[LS_Powah]

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
To the OP....

Didnt go trough all those fairytales...but...what I find stupid here is...

...I want thin oil...but will thicken it up a little with XY conoction... LoL

Buy thicker oil instead...and leave that oily API/Ilsac water behind

Umm, it's not that I 'wanted' anything. Maybe re-read. Truck was just purchased; I followed Toyota guidance on first OC, and got unexpected noise. Consensus seems to be 5w30...which is where I am headed. Thanks very much for the input everybody! I will report back when I swap it.

 

[Snagglefoot]

 

[tiger862]

Originally Posted by danez_yoda
Strange

When it warms up the oil is thinner not thicker. Thinner oil get up through passages better to quiet the top end down. Thickening the oil should make it worse.

If you have the old oil you could get a UOI to see what viscosity it was.

you might try a different brand. Mobil 1 is "reported" to be noisy in some engines. Pennzoil platinum, TGMO, or Castrol Magnetec are known to quiet engines down.

you could try a lucus, STP oil thickner but you wont know if it was the additives or viscosity that fixed the noise. Maybe swap out a quart or two for a quart of 10W-30.







Wrong Oil is 0 grade cold 20 grade hot. 20 grade is heavier. 0 grade flows faster for cold start

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tiger862
Wrong Oil is 0 grade cold 20 grade hot. 20 grade is heavier. 0 grade flows faster for cold start

That statement is completely wrong. There is no "0" grade oil and any oil is far thinner hot than cold.

 

[tiger862]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tiger862
Wrong Oil is 0 grade cold 20 grade hot. 20 grade is heavier. 0 grade flows faster for cold start

That statement is completely wrong. There is no "0" grade oil and any oil is far thinner hot than cold.

https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/sae-viscosity-grades/

https://www.lubricants.total.com/what-are-oil-grades

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tiger862
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tiger862
Wrong Oil is 0 grade cold 20 grade hot. 20 grade is heavier. 0 grade flows faster for cold start

That statement is completely wrong. There is no "0" grade oil and any oil is far thinner hot than cold.

https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/sae-viscosity-grades/

Like I said there is no 0 grade oil. A multi-grade 0W-20 oil is not a "0" grade when cold and a 20 grade when hot, which is what you stated.

From your second link:
Quote
The "W" stands for winter, not weight as many people think.

The reason that's a problem is it leads to people thinking the oil is thinner cold than hot, which is never true.

 

[tiger862]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tiger862
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tiger862
Wrong Oil is 0 grade cold 20 grade hot. 20 grade is heavier. 0 grade flows faster for cold start

That statement is completely wrong. There is no "0" grade oil and any oil is far thinner hot than cold.

https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/sae-viscosity-grades/

Like I said there is no 0 grade oil. A multi-grade 0W-20 oil is not a "0" grade when cold and a 20 grade when hot, which is what you stated.

From your second link:
Quote
The "W" stands for winter, not weight as many people think.

The reason that's a problem is it leads to people thinking the oil is thinner cold than hot, which is never true.

It states viscosity grade 0w cold pressure
I never stated w was weight
Oil has additives to keep in grade at normal operating temperatures
It is called mutigrade oil (1 grade winter 1 grade operating)
Used oil is thicker once additives are worn
All about Viscosity

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Sorry Tiger - - the apprentice is not ready to teach.

Maybe someday

Nice Van BTW

_____________________________

Kinematic Viscosity of a quality 5w30 multi-grade motor oil varies from

approx.:

400 cSt at a Freezing cold start to

12 cSt at warmed and Operating coolant temperature.

You might tend to agree that 300 is a but more "honey-esque" than 12.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by tiger862

It states viscosity grade 0w cold pressure
I never stated w was weight
Oil has additives to keep in grade at normal operating temperatures
It is called mutigrade oil (1 grade winter 1 grade operating)
Used oil is thicker once additives are worn
All about Viscosity


- Oil gets thicker as it gets colder. If you feel it necessary to test this, take a room temperature bottle of oil and pour some of it out. Now stick that oil in the freezer overnight. Pour it again.

- The number in front of the W is the rating for the oil's winter performance. This is NOT a measure of viscosity and should not be compared with the oil's hot grade, which is what comes AFTER the W. It is a QUALIFICATION of the oil's ability to pass the CCS and MRV tests for the respective rating, which are a set of viscosity ceilings.

The limits are based on 5 degree celcius intervals, offset by 5 degrees.

Let's look at a SAE J300:

You can see all the Winter grades do not have qualifications for HTHS or a ceiling for hot viscosity. They instead have cold temperature limits for CCS and MRV.

Rather than using an oil grade, for the which the data sheets tend to be a bit sparse, let's look at a PAO base oil, which will give us some more information. This is Mobil Spectrasyn Plus 6 PAO, from here: https://exxonmobilchemical.ulprospe...6&e=244595&culture=en-us&u=1

First, you can see that at 100C, the oil is 5.9cSt. When we move to a lower temperature, say 40C, that viscosity increases to 30.3cSt. If we go much, much colder to -40C, which is where MRV for the 0W designation is measured, we see that the oil is now 7,400cSt, massively thicker.

Moving further down the sheet we can see that Mobil chose to break-out the CCS (Cold Cranking Simulator) viscosity at multiple temperatures for this product:
-25C (10W): 1,400cP
-30C (5W): 2,247cP
-35C (0W): 3,600cP

Because, as per J300, we can see that this oil falls below the upper limit for the 0W designation (6,200cP) and its hot viscosity aligns with SAE 12, this base oil would qualify as a 0w-12.

 

[tiger862]

Real world experience is you need a multigrade oil. 0w will be thick coming out of freezer but 20 grade will be thicker. Have tore many engines apart with wrong grade (50 vs 30) with complaints of early engine failure. Numbers give you a baseline. No way would you run a sae12 grade in deep north. Look at UOA if oil thinned out as everyone claimed 0w40 would be 0w10 when it is time to change which is not the case
0w20 after oil change is either thicker from additive deletion or thinner with fuel dilution. GM had to change OLM on 3.6 early years due to oil changes eating timing gears due to additive depletion with conventional oil.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tiger862
Real world experience is you need a multigrade oil. 0w will be thick coming out of freezer but 20 grade will be thicker. Have tore many engines apart with wrong grade (50 vs 30) with complaints of early engine failure. Numbers give you a baseline. No way would you run a sae12 grade in deep north. Look at UOA if oil thinned out as everyone claimed 0w40 would be 0w10 when it is time to change which is not the case
0w20 after oil change is either thicker from additive deletion or thinner with fuel dilution. GM had to change OLM on 3.6 early years due to oil changes eating timing gears due to additive depletion with conventional oil.

None of that really makes any sense. 0W-what oil? There is no "0W" oil. Some 20 grade oils pass the 0W CCS and MRV tests, some do not. Some 30 grade oils pass the 0W CCS and MRV tests, some do not. Some 40 grade oils pass the 0W CCS and MRV tests, some do not. Also there is no SAE 12 grade either but if there was, why wouldn't you want to run it in the deep north?

You've got a lot going on in your post, it's not too clear what point you're trying to make and it's hard to make a clear response. What Overkill posted is completely accurate as is what others have said in their posts. I especially don't understand your comment about "if oil thinned out as everyone claimed 0w40 would be 0w10 when it is time to change." You can't change the laws of physics, as the temperature decreases the oil gets thicker. Some may thicken less than others but it's always thicker. What happens to an oil while in service is due to other things.

It still gets down to where you said "Wrong Oil is 0 grade cold 20 grade hot. 20 grade is heavier." is not correct because it indicates you don't understand what the winter rating means.

 

[chainblu]

Piissing contests aside, this is to the OP:

If you do decide to run 5w30, try to stay with Mobil 1. Otherwise you (we) really haven't learned much.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by tiger862
Real world experience is you need a multigrade oil. 0w will be thick coming out of freezer but 20 grade will be thicker. Have tore many engines apart with wrong grade (50 vs 30) with complaints of early engine failure. Numbers give you a baseline. No way would you run a sae12 grade in deep north. Look at UOA if oil thinned out as everyone claimed 0w40 would be 0w10 when it is time to change which is not the case
0w20 after oil change is either thicker from additive deletion or thinner with fuel dilution. GM had to change OLM on 3.6 early years due to oil changes eating timing gears due to additive depletion with conventional oil.


I don't believe you properly comprehended the material presented. I produced, via a base oil, a multigrade oil of the 0w-12 variety with the specs noted. I can just as easily do the same for a heavier base if it is going to help you understand the concept. It's quite possible to make a 0w-20 with straight PAO or a 5w-30, both being multigrades.

 

[tiger862]

We aren't talking SAE oils. I am talking multigrade oils which have additives to thicken oil to 20 grade at 212 instead of letting oil thin out at 212. Anyhow as this poster originally ask my answer still stands. Run what manufacturer recommends without any additives

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by tiger862
We aren't talking SAE oils. I am talking multigrade oils which have additives to thicken oil to 20 grade at 212 instead of letting oil thin out at 212. Anyhow as this poster originally ask my answer still stands. Run what manufacturer recommends without any additives


You aren't understanding the topic. Re-read my earlier post. SAE sets all of the grades, regardless of whether they are multigrade or straight weights. And no, it does not require additives to produce a 0w-20, one can be made using straight PAO as it meets both the cold temp MRV and CSS requirements for the 0W winter designation as well as the 100C hot visc for the 20 viscosity range.

ALL oils thin as the temperature increases, just as they all thicken as the temperature is reduced. An oil dosed with Viscosity Index Improvers (VII) is simply bolstered to thin at a slower rate via the behaviour of the polymers.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by chainblu
Piissing contests aside, this is to the OP:

If you do decide to run 5w30, try to stay with Mobil 1. Otherwise you (we) really haven't learned much.


Why not try any other brand? I prefer EU brands...since we dont know "conventional" oils in 5w30 grade...?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tiger862
We aren't talking SAE oils. I am talking multigrade oils which have additives to thicken oil to 20 grade at 212 instead of letting oil thin out at 212. Anyhow as this poster originally ask my answer still stands. Run what manufacturer recommends without any additives

Multi-grade oils are SAE oils, the label says SAE 0W-20, or whatever the grade happens to be.

Please, spend some time learning what is actually the truth rather than continuing to post what is not.