Toxic dangerous new refrigerant Dupont EPA EU

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Originally Posted By: Tempest
European regulators are declaring war on choice:

http://www.racplus.com/news/european-com...8644501.article


Quote:
“At the debate in the Environment Committee, I will call on Commissioner Tajani to start infringement proceedings not only against Germany but against every EU country that allows the sale of new Daimler models that are not in conformity with the law.”


That'll work out well for them I'm sure. Germany pulls out of the EU and the entire house of cards collapses over a refrigerant issue. Bravo! What a bumbling bunch of fools. German IS the EU. Without Germany's industrial might and financial strength, the whole thing would have collapsed ages ago. This is a slap in the face to the country that is keep the boat these morons are riding on afloat. Bloody ridiculous!
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
It's not as efficient as the traditional refrigerants. And the pressures needed to operate with CO2 are incredibly high.


Exactly. A good refrigerant for a car system will condense at a few hundred PSI max at 150 degrees F, then boil at a few tens of PSI at around freezing, give or take a bit. CO2 has to be run at stupid-high pressure to hit the condensation temp point.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
It's criminal that dupont were the lobby agent that got HC refrigerants all but banned on safety grounds, then get to sell ever more expensive and more dangerous chemicals forever after.




Its criminal that the EPA legislates the chemical used, rather than pushing automakers to build systems that will more reliably contain a more "harmful" but more efficient and safer chemical over the life of the vehicle. The latter would benefit the environment AND the consumer, because vehicle HVAC systems would be a lot more reliable, and more vehicles would be built so that more systems could be serviced without evacuating the HVAC. WAY too many repair procedures on modern cars begin with "evacuate the AC refrigerant..." when a better routing of hoses and slightly more expensive-to-build component assemblies would allow the system to stay charged during more procedures. Cars are built to be cheap to ASSEMBLE, not to service or own.
 
I think it would be better for the various citizens of each country if it did come apart the EU.

The article shows how very arrogant they are supporting this highly dangerous refrigerant and also shows how rivalries are still simmering underneath the EU.
 
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Ick.

Of course to be fair, ALL the CFC/HFC and other flourocarbon family of gasses will do nasty things if you get them hot enough. If there's a leak of good old R-12 and it gets sucked into the air intake of a running engine, especially a diesel, a certain amount of very toxic phosgene will come out the tailpipe. Same for Halon that was used as a fire suppressant before it was phased out.

But the fact that this one does it at temps seen on the surface of the exhaust manifold is a bit worrisome.

I disagree about a pure propane/butane mix. WAY too flammable, and since its much heavier than air a leak in the evaporator side could pool in the ducting until someone starts the car and the fan motor commutator ignites it.



At least someone has some real facts based upon chemistry and reality... TOo many just want to knee jerk their way around a topic without any real knowledge.

I agree on all counts.
 
Quote:
UK Liberal Democrat MEP Chris Davies, who was shadow rapporteur on the drafting of the MAC directive, welcomed the move:"...At the debate in the Environment Committee, I will call on Commissioner Tajani to start infringement proceedings not only against Germany but against every EU country that allows the sale of new Daimler models that are not in conformity with the law.”


This guy sounds like Mouch...who is John Gault?
 
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