Towing and trans life

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted By: supton
Parents had an Astro; it was unibody. I wonder how it'd be rated today: IIRC 4k curb, 160hp(?) (4.3 TBI), 3.42:1 gearing, 700R4. I have a tough time believing it'd still earn a 5k rating. No fun to work on but it was something of a workhorse. I think dad said he got 18mpg with it. Probably more on the highway I'd think.

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I dunno. 19mpg vs 25mpg, Tundra vs Caravan. About a $1k/year difference in gas (25k/year). But, less tire cost etc. Just trying to be rational about this.

For the heck of it I just looked at dodge.com to see. Looks like tow package is only available on the most expensive R/T model ($30k new); not available on the lower rung models. Very annoyingly they do not tell what a non-tow package one is rated for. Not looking to buy new but just rerunning all the numbers.


Go to a vehicle specific forum and do some research on the difference between one with a tow option and one without. I did that for the Saturn Outlook I had previously and found it was VERY simple to convert to a tow-kit version. Add a transmission cooler (OEM has larger transmission cooler built into radiator), add the wiring and hitch, and add the tow/haul mode button. The software is already in the micro-controller, and the wiring is already there...I just had to buy the actual switch and plug it in...worked perfectly.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
For fun lets do some money math, simple and fast add detail if you want.

The Jetta is 9 model years old, so lets round up and say you put 32k miles on it a year.

Now lets have some fun:
A 2013 Jetta TDI seem to run online around $25,000. They claim 42mpg on the highway so lets use that figure.

284,000/42=6,762 rounded up gallons of diesel used. @ my best local price of right now at 3.93 a gallon is $26,574.28 for fuel over the life of the vehicle. So lets throw $10k on top of that number for taxes, insurance, etc.

So your looking at $61,574.29 over say 9 years assuming you keep the new Jetta as long as the old one. Or $6,841.59 a year.

So lets say you drive your truck to the same mileage from lets say its at 84k now for round numbers.

So 200,000 miles @ 15mpg=13,333.33 gallons of fuel. @ 3.48 that is $46,400 in fuel.

Lets say you keep it for 6 years and throw another $10k on that number for car stuff. Your at 9,400 a year.

I'd buy the 2013 Jetta or a something else that can break 40, that extra $20k in fuel is a lot.


Yes, $20k would be. Can't do it; I'm a bad person and floating not one but two car payments at the moment--Camry and Tundra. Tundra was bought as I could not find a decent truck that didn't cost an arm and a leg; or was otherwise undesirable (V6, reg cab, etc). Jetta was assumed to be good for a few more years, but I'm just tired of the VW requirements. Not about to take up a third payment so I can "save money." Really, I need to either fix the Jetta or trade the Tundra; trading the Jetta straight up means getting another beater in probably the same problematic shape. Trading the Tundra means finding something with more modest towing and better mpg; likely something FWD based. Hence this thread.

FWIW, before Tundra I was doing about 25kmiles/year each on Camry and Jetta. Getting the Tundra winds up around 22k/Camry, 20k/Jetta and 10k/Tundra, give or take (about 2k extra per year). I've only put 5k on the Tundra in the six months I've had, and its use has been varied, so its mpg isn't known. I got 16.8mpg for the first 3 tanks, then 20.7 on the following 2-3 tanks. I got 18-19 on a trip driving slow with the camper; I got 16 driving fast with the camper. I think the EPA est of 19 is about spot on for my commuting, perhaps 20 in summer and 18 in winter with snows.


You are sort of in a dilemma. 2 car payments--- you have a truck that would out-tow anything we've talked about--- what about taking 2 cars for the camping trips for the short term and just using the truck. while I'm pro minivan I'm more pro-truck--- though I realize that families don't fit in trucks well unless you go for a extended or double cab.

If it were ME, I think I'd ditch the jetta, tow with the toyota, let the wife drive ahead. If you really want to do the trips in one vehicle, which I *totally* understand, you may want to sell both the jetta and the 'yota. A mid '2000s cherokee would do it (I towed a 2000 lb trailer 300 miles with an 08 v6 and it was a good experience--- it wasn't long WB but they are Heavy which kept it planted and stable).

If you are considering a chryco--- I'm going to share my pet peeve of it. you can see if the model you consider still has this feature, and decide if it bothers you. the steering wheel in my 02 is not centered to the drivers seat. it is moved 3/8" towards the center of the vehicle. if you never notice it, it won't bother you. when you forget about it, it won't bother you. but if you are like me--- when you remember it or see it, it will make you feel like the seat is crawling with bugs and want out of the car. I don't know why they felt the need to do this. the cabin is plenty big enough to align the wheel with the seat.

 

[hypervish]

I think you had the right idea earlier with another thread about finding a quiet, reliable car that's less than $5k.

Sell the Jetta and buy a $5k car, keep the Tundra and Camry.

There are many reliable cars out there for $5k, that will be cheaper to maintain than your Jetta.

 

[supton]

meep, Toyota is a double cab already (four door setup, but not the massive crew max). I tried looking at a Chevy extended cab, but once I jumped into the DC Toyota I was sold. Everything I wanted (assuming I kept the Jetta for commuting).

I've been contemplating about taking two vehicles for traveling. Jetta can get the current camper out of the driveway with some care (I feel like I am abusing the thing to back the camper in though, reverse gear needs to be cut in half!); Jetta probably could pull off 30mpg towing and the Camry would get 36 I think. 16c/mile in that setup. Truck gets 18 if I keep my foot out of it; 18c/mile.

Jetta and camper in the backyard (you can see the Camry in the front driveway):

Tundra and camper: Big difference! wife thought it was comical to see my Jetta pulling the camper.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: hypervish
I think you had the right idea earlier with another thread about finding a quiet, reliable car that's less than $5k.

Sell the Jetta and buy a $5k car, keep the Tundra and Camry.

There are many reliable cars out there for $5k, that will be cheaper to maintain than your Jetta.


Just doing my duty, covering any and all bases. I think you're right, I just want to be completely sold on the idea.

 

[hattaresguy]

If the Tundra does better than the 15mpg I assumed than that $20k shrinks.

Consider the difference the cost of camping.

 

[Thermo1223]

Well in all honestly looking at Dodge.com the tow package is nothing more than a Class II Hitch/Wiring/Suspension leveling.

The 2 former can be done at any U-Haul or in your driveway.

If it is an air shock I'd pass anyway. If it is those Nivomat shocks I'd still pass anyway. They don't change anything else since the engine already has an oil cooler and a trans cooler.

VW's DSG & old 4 speed had and still have issues, every car maker will. The 6spd in the Fords doesn't have the cleanest records. Neither does the 6 spd in Acadia & Traverse. To put it blunty every one will have a problem, it is luck of the draw sometimes.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
The 6spd in the Fords doesn't have the cleanest records. Neither does the 6 spd in Acadia & Traverse. To put it blunty every one will have a problem, it is luck of the draw sometimes.



What are the issues with the GM/Ford 6 speeds?

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
The 6spd in the Fords doesn't have the cleanest records. Neither does the 6 spd in Acadia & Traverse. To put it blunty every one will have a problem, it is luck of the draw sometimes.



What are the issues with the GM/Ford 6 speeds?


GM is a flexplate issue & torque converter I think.

Ford is shift quality amoung other things which in it's own won't kill a transmission now but one tends to think long term.

These are only transverse FWD/AWD transmissions not RWD.