Totaled? What do you think (smashed)

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Originally Posted By: SumpChump


Totaled? What should I accept for value check? Is it productive to haggle with my company if they lowball?

6 panels affected, car twisted, doors wont open in rear from twist, underbody hit curb, t boned drivers side, tranny pushed in and down, fluids leaking , airbags deployed, column busted locked permanently on. Secondary hit on passenger side into concrete corner wall.

Pics... LINK to PICS 1 PICS group 2



Yes, sorry but it is totalled. Twist a unibody and it's usually done.

For your payoff, it should be replacement value. So my recommendation is to go find three vehicles that are as close as you can find to yours, years, mileage, options and condition. This is what you should be paid. Your company may try to baffle you with salvage value minus this or that and several different calculations. Tell them that is their internal calculation and that you expect an amount that will allow the vehicle to be replaced with LKQ - like kind and quality. Mention bad faith (look it up) if they are holding bck for more than 4-5 business days. Ultimately take your business elsewhere if they do not pay what it is worth.

So yes, worthwhile to ask for.more. It is not haggling, you are simply expecting to be paid on the promise they made you, that you have been paying for.
 
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I hope they total it--there's a lot to be made "right" otherwise.

Considering your description and the photos, the most important thing is that you're OK.

Is that the back end of a first-generation Firebird in ds2?
 
OP;

As others have said it is hard to know without being there in person. I actually used to work in the auto field and wrote a lot of crash orders for body shops. The shot of the driver's side makes me think it could be totaled but again without being there it is hard to tell. I have seen cars that look much worse than that get fixed and I have seen cars that hardly look damaged that are totaled. Damage to the frame is what really matters and usually leads to a total or not on newer vehicles like yours. Neither of your pictures offers a view that shows anything conclusive enough to do more than make a guess.

One thing I disagree on with what a lot of others are posting is what you should expect to get for it. Lots of optimistic folks here from what I am seeing. Unless you have a policy that covers full replacement, have gap insurance, etc... then expect to only get a portion of the book value. Normal insurance policies only pay out a % of the vehicle's book value not the full value. That % also comes into play when deciding if it is totaled or not. They only pay up to that % of the value to fix it and once reached it is totaled. Usually it is around 80-85% of the book value. A really cheap policy could pay even less.

Example. If book value for your vehicle is $12K as you posted most insurance companies will only pay a fixed % of that as I said. So if it is totaled, and unless you have special provisions for more or gap to cover the amount regular insurance doesn't, then you might only see $9600.00 - $10,200.00. Be prepared for that unfortunately. As soon as the repair totals reach that same % of the book value it is totaled. They won't pay up to the full 100% to fix it.

My BIL was t-boned in his brand new Dakota( 3 days old )and insurance wanted to total it because to repair it the frame had to literally be replaced. The % of book value they were willing to pay fell a few thousand short so initially they were going to total it. It left him owing almost $4000 on it and the other driver was uninsured. I was able to work with my long time body guy and to use my connections( still had some back then )to get the parts for less, plus I caught the adjuster using good book value and not excellent condition as as it should have been only being 3 days old, and we got it under the total limit so it was fixed so he wasn't screwed over.

You may have to deal with a similar case depending on what you owe on it( i.e. a total leaving you in the black vs. a total leaving you owing a lot ). Even though you say it was not your fault, so the other driver's insurance will be paying for it all ultimately, they are still only going to pay a % of book value and not full value or replacement cost. You can try and negotiate but it will do no good being honest. You may have to get that lawyer you talked of earlier and sue to get the lost value if it comes to that.

Also, one other thing, don't waste your time trying to use things like using TGMO for oil and such. That will gain you nothing in the settlement and it will only cause you a lot of stress that they won't care about if you bring it up. Pretty much all that matters is the year, mileage, and the make/model/options. An honest and good adjuster can also tell if the vehicle is in really good condition from the areas that aren't damaged. A well cared for vehicle will show barring a catastrophic situation and will be taken into account as much as it can be( minimal )but very good condition( kbb/nada )is as high as any insurance will go for a 2013. No way they will go to excellent so understand that. You can argue and try to bump it to VG from G but forget E.

You will pretty much get the same $$$ for it anyone would regardless of maintenance and such as well. That stuff you talked of earlier with the OC's, waxes, garage kept, etc... matters more in an actual sale situation not in a crash settlement. Not trying to be a jerk about it just trying to warn you.

Again, until it has actually been totaled wait and see where it goes. If it is totaled then see what the settlement is. As I said, unless your policy has a provision for replacement cost, gap insurance, or something similar you need to be prepared for a check that is only a % of the book value. That is how insurance works and even when you are not at fault. At least if it wasn't your fault you can go after the other driver for lost value and hope to possibly recover some or all of that extra $$$.

Good luck with it all.
 
Good luck with it all. [/quote]
Example. If book value for your vehicle is $12K as you posted most insurance companies will only pay a fixed % of that as I said. So if it is totaled, and unless you have special provisions for more or gap to cover the amount regular insurance doesn't, then you might only see $9600.00 - $10,200.00. Be prepared for that unfortunately. As soon as the repair totals reach that same % of the book value it is totaled. They won't pay up to the full 100% to fix it.

My BIL was t-boned in his brand new Dakota( 3 days old )and insurance wanted to total it because to repair it the frame had to literally be replaced. The % of book value they were willing to pay fell a few thousand short so initially they were going to total it. It left him owing almost $4000 on it and the other driver was uninsured. I was able to work with my long time body guy and to use my connections( still had some back then )to get the parts for less, plus I caught the adjuster using good book value and not excellent condition as as it should have been only being 3 days old, and we got it under the total limit so it was fixed so he wasn't screwed over.

You may have to deal with a similar case depending on what you owe on it( i.e. a total leaving you in the black vs. a total leaving you owing a lot ). Even though you say it was not your fault, so the other driver's insurance will be paying for it all ultimately, they are still only going to pay a % of book value and not full value or replacement cost. You can try and negotiate but it will do no good being honest. You may have to get that lawyer you talked of earlier and sue to get the lost value if it comes to that.

Also, one other thing, don't waste your time trying to use things like using TGMO for oil and such. That will gain you nothing in the settlement and it will only cause you a lot of stress that they won't care about if you bring it up. Pretty much all that matters is the year, mileage, and the make/model/options. An honest and good adjuster can also tell if the vehicle is in really good condition from the areas that aren't damaged. A well cared for vehicle will show barring a catastrophic situation and will be taken into account as much as it can be( minimal )but very good condition( kbb/nada )is as high as any insurance will go for a 2013. No way they will go to excellent so understand that. You can argue and try to bump it to VG from G but forget E.

You will pretty much get the same $$$ for it anyone would regardless of maintenance and such as well. That stuff you talked of earlier with the OC's, waxes, garage kept, etc... matters more in an actual sale situation not in a crash settlement. Not trying to be a jerk about it just trying to warn you.

Again, until it has actually been totaled wait and see where it goes. If it is totaled then see what the settlement is. As I said, unless your policy has a provision for replacement cost, gap insurance, or something similar you need to be prepared for a check that is only a % of the book value. That is how insurance works and even when you are not at fault. At least if it wasn't your fault you can go after the other driver for lost value and hope to possibly recover some or all of that extra $$$.

Good luck with it all. [/quote]

Then I need to ask you, should it be a percentage of.... Trade-in book value or retail book value or private sale book value. Those three run a $3k difference.

Your advice will be much appreciated.
 
I am going to go and chill for a while folks because the more I think about some wise arse adjuster saying that it wasnt in that good of condition and that the repairs will be "gudda nuff"..... The more I feel like I'm going to unleash verbal therpautics on somebody at HQ afterwards.

Gudda nuff, hey. That sucker will never hold an allignment. Accessories reinstalled rather than replaced will fail from bearing smacks on impact but which "look ok" . And the endless codes from body sensors not conmected and water intrusion into rust areas. What a joke.

But then again, maybe I could actually get more by taking it right from the shiny repair shop with its fresh cheapo 30day durable clear coat with the complimentary over spray on the door rubbers right on over to a dealer and find a young hungry salesman and announce my trade-in.
 
You need to see what they provide, in absence of a statute that prescribes a book value be used. Most larger companies are going to use a service like Autosource, Work Center Total loss, or CCC and will probably use comparable vehicles.

Ask for the report. See if the comparables really are, they should be adjusted for condition and equipment.

HOW the car is rated can make a HUGE difference in the value and it is really not a judgement, the conditioning guides (least for Audatex and Mitchell) are similar what you see leasing companies use and records do make a difference in the mechanical conditions.

Even if they do use books, be aware that NADAguides.com is a national value and the professional version has regional prices they can have quite different values. KBB-Dealer is pie in the sky (private party is more realistic).

If you want solid advice, you need to just let them make you an offer and get the report and go from there.

For a Corolla there will be a lot of comparables which should help.
 
Insurance will total it, especially with the airbags fired. Personally...I'd buy it back, send it to the semi-retired body guy I know, and tell him to have his son start hunting the auctions for a parts car.

But I KNOW that he is an absolute master body man that can get it absolutely 100% perfect again, and will consider it a point of personal pride to do so...YMMV.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
OP;

As others have said it is hard to know without being there in person. I actually used to work in the auto field and wrote a lot of crash orders for body shops. The shot of the driver's side makes me think it could be totaled but again without being there it is hard to tell. I have seen cars that look much worse than that get fixed and I have seen cars that hardly look damaged that are totaled. Damage to the frame is what really matters and usually leads to a total or not on newer vehicles like yours. Neither of your pictures offers a view that shows anything conclusive enough to do more than make a guess.

One thing I disagree on with what a lot of others are posting is what you should expect to get for it. Lots of optimistic folks here from what I am seeing. Unless you have a policy that covers full replacement, have gap insurance, etc... then expect to only get a portion of the book value. Normal insurance policies only pay out a % of the vehicle's book value not the full value. That % also comes into play when deciding if it is totaled or not. They only pay up to that % of the value to fix it and once reached it is totaled. Usually it is around 80-85% of the book value. A really cheap policy could pay even less.

Example. If book value for your vehicle is $12K as you posted most insurance companies will only pay a fixed % of that as I said. So if it is totaled, and unless you have special provisions for more or gap to cover the amount regular insurance doesn't, then you might only see $9600.00 - $10,200.00. Be prepared for that unfortunately. As soon as the repair totals reach that same % of the book value it is totaled. They won't pay up to the full 100% to fix it.

My BIL was t-boned in his brand new Dakota( 3 days old )and insurance wanted to total it because to repair it the frame had to literally be replaced. The % of book value they were willing to pay fell a few thousand short so initially they were going to total it. It left him owing almost $4000 on it and the other driver was uninsured. I was able to work with my long time body guy and to use my connections( still had some back then )to get the parts for less, plus I caught the adjuster using good book value and not excellent condition as as it should have been only being 3 days old, and we got it under the total limit so it was fixed so he wasn't screwed over.

You may have to deal with a similar case depending on what you owe on it( i.e. a total leaving you in the black vs. a total leaving you owing a lot ). Even though you say it was not your fault, so the other driver's insurance will be paying for it all ultimately, they are still only going to pay a % of book value and not full value or replacement cost. You can try and negotiate but it will do no good being honest. You may have to get that lawyer you talked of earlier and sue to get the lost value if it comes to that.

Also, one other thing, don't waste your time trying to use things like using TGMO for oil and such. That will gain you nothing in the settlement and it will only cause you a lot of stress that they won't care about if you bring it up. Pretty much all that matters is the year, mileage, and the make/model/options. An honest and good adjuster can also tell if the vehicle is in really good condition from the areas that aren't damaged. A well cared for vehicle will show barring a catastrophic situation and will be taken into account as much as it can be( minimal )but very good condition( kbb/nada )is as high as any insurance will go for a 2013. No way they will go to excellent so understand that. You can argue and try to bump it to VG from G but forget E.

You will pretty much get the same $$$ for it anyone would regardless of maintenance and such as well. That stuff you talked of earlier with the OC's, waxes, garage kept, etc... matters more in an actual sale situation not in a crash settlement. Not trying to be a jerk about it just trying to warn you.

Again, until it has actually been totaled wait and see where it goes. If it is totaled then see what the settlement is. As I said, unless your policy has a provision for replacement cost, gap insurance, or something similar you need to be prepared for a check that is only a % of the book value. That is how insurance works and even when you are not at fault. At least if it wasn't your fault you can go after the other driver for lost value and hope to possibly recover some or all of that extra $$$.

Good luck with it all.


My understanding in NJ: Every insurance company has a different threshold as to when they will total a car. Some will total when the repairs cost 85% of the value of the car and some will total at 55%. Some will total if there is flood no mater the cost of repairs. I totaled a car in 1987. The insurance company offered me what they said I could have sold my car for. I declined and said I wanted replacement value. The insurance company will lowball you thinking you want the check and a new car ASAP. It took me two weeks and escalation up three levels in the insurance company to get what I felt I was entitled to. Your insurance premiums should be for the value of your car. Not some smaller % thereof.

Insurance companies don't care about maintenance or what kind of oil you used. No one outside of a few people on BITOG care about that.
 
Originally Posted By: SumpChump


Then I need to ask you, should it be a percentage of.... Trade-in book value or retail book value or private sale book value. Those three run a $3k difference.

Your advice will be much appreciated.


It all depends on your state, your insurance company, and your policy. Just in general, and in my experience, they usually use the lowest figure( trade in ). Insurance will pay the absolute minimum they can get away with.

That is why it is so important, IMO, these days with cars costing so much to have GAP insurance on any vehicle you owe money on( unless it is very little ). GAP will pay that extra money you would still owe if the car is totaled and your settlement is less than what is owed. It doesn't give you any money in your pocket but at least you don't owe on a car that is gone.

I would also recommend a policy that includes full replacement value, 1 year newer replacement value, etc... in the policy to ensure you don't get screwed on a newer car you own outright. This helps cover the value( i.e. you bought it outright or put a lot of money down to buy )you would otherwise lose on a vehicle that has depreciated a lot( big issue on new cars in 1st couple years of ownership ).

You really need to look into the fine print and details of any insurance policy you are considering to see what is and isn't covered. So many people just look at the policy cost and deductible but pay no attention to the details that really will matter if an accident occurs. Is towing covered standard or do I need to add it? Is a rental covered standard or do I need to add it? What happens in a total situation? Are any of my aftermarket parts covered? Etc...
 
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Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
OP;

As others have said it is hard to know without being there in person. I actually used to work in the auto field and wrote a lot of crash orders for body shops. The shot of the driver's side makes me think it could be totaled but again without being there it is hard to tell. I have seen cars that look much worse than that get fixed and I have seen cars that hardly look damaged that are totaled. Damage to the frame is what really matters and usually leads to a total or not on newer vehicles like yours. Neither of your pictures offers a view that shows anything conclusive enough to do more than make a guess.

One thing I disagree on with what a lot of others are posting is what you should expect to get for it. Lots of optimistic folks here from what I am seeing. Unless you have a policy that covers full replacement, have gap insurance, etc... then expect to only get a portion of the book value. Normal insurance policies only pay out a % of the vehicle's book value not the full value. That % also comes into play when deciding if it is totaled or not. They only pay up to that % of the value to fix it and once reached it is totaled. Usually it is around 80-85% of the book value. A really cheap policy could pay even less.

Example. If book value for your vehicle is $12K as you posted most insurance companies will only pay a fixed % of that as I said. So if it is totaled, and unless you have special provisions for more or gap to cover the amount regular insurance doesn't, then you might only see $9600.00 - $10,200.00. Be prepared for that unfortunately. As soon as the repair totals reach that same % of the book value it is totaled. They won't pay up to the full 100% to fix it.

My BIL was t-boned in his brand new Dakota( 3 days old )and insurance wanted to total it because to repair it the frame had to literally be replaced. The % of book value they were willing to pay fell a few thousand short so initially they were going to total it. It left him owing almost $4000 on it and the other driver was uninsured. I was able to work with my long time body guy and to use my connections( still had some back then )to get the parts for less, plus I caught the adjuster using good book value and not excellent condition as as it should have been only being 3 days old, and we got it under the total limit so it was fixed so he wasn't screwed over.

You may have to deal with a similar case depending on what you owe on it( i.e. a total leaving you in the black vs. a total leaving you owing a lot ). Even though you say it was not your fault, so the other driver's insurance will be paying for it all ultimately, they are still only going to pay a % of book value and not full value or replacement cost. You can try and negotiate but it will do no good being honest. You may have to get that lawyer you talked of earlier and sue to get the lost value if it comes to that.

Also, one other thing, don't waste your time trying to use things like using TGMO for oil and such. That will gain you nothing in the settlement and it will only cause you a lot of stress that they won't care about if you bring it up. Pretty much all that matters is the year, mileage, and the make/model/options. An honest and good adjuster can also tell if the vehicle is in really good condition from the areas that aren't damaged. A well cared for vehicle will show barring a catastrophic situation and will be taken into account as much as it can be( minimal )but very good condition( kbb/nada )is as high as any insurance will go for a 2013. No way they will go to excellent so understand that. You can argue and try to bump it to VG from G but forget E.

You will pretty much get the same $$$ for it anyone would regardless of maintenance and such as well. That stuff you talked of earlier with the OC's, waxes, garage kept, etc... matters more in an actual sale situation not in a crash settlement. Not trying to be a jerk about it just trying to warn you.

Again, until it has actually been totaled wait and see where it goes. If it is totaled then see what the settlement is. As I said, unless your policy has a provision for replacement cost, gap insurance, or something similar you need to be prepared for a check that is only a % of the book value. That is how insurance works and even when you are not at fault. At least if it wasn't your fault you can go after the other driver for lost value and hope to possibly recover some or all of that extra $$$.

Good luck with it all.


My understanding in NJ: Every insurance company has a different threshold as to when they will total a car. Some will total when the repairs cost 85% of the value of the car and some will total at 55%. Some will total if there is flood no mater the cost of repairs. I totaled a car in 1987. The insurance company offered me what they said I could have sold my car for. I declined and said I wanted replacement value. The insurance company will lowball you thinking you want the check and a new car ASAP. It took me two weeks and escalation up three levels in the insurance company to get what I felt I was entitled to. Your insurance premiums should be for the value of your car. Not some smaller % thereof.

Insurance companies don't care about maintenance or what kind of oil you used. No one outside of a few people on BITOG care about that.


Exactly and basically what I said. You are correct the % varies from state to state and from company/policy to company/policy.
 
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