Torque

MolaKule

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We have two single-cylinder gasoline engines with identical bores of 4 inches in diameter.

Engine A has a stroke of 3.125 inches.

Engine B has a stroke of 3.5 inches.

Which engine will produce more torque and why?
 
We have two single-cylinder gasoline engines with identical bores of 4 inches in diameter.

Engine A has a stroke of 3.125 inches.

Engine B has a stroke of 3.5 inches.

Which engine will produce more torque and why?
Probably B due to more displacement, but without more information or the statement that all else is identical, it's impossible to answer this.
 
Typically, a longer stroke with a shorter connecting rod produces more torque. The old 300 ci I-6 Ford engine was famous for this.
 
The longer stroke (within reason) applies more leverage to the crankshaft. This increases twist, which is expressed in torque.
Basic engineering.
 
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What is the compression ratio of each?
Interesting question. American car manufacturers increased cubic inches due to reduced compression ratios starting around 1971 - 72.
The 70 Corvette is the only year of a high compression 454, I believe. I had a 70 coupe with the CRR (LS6) engine. 4-6 mpg.

I assume the post meant the engines were otherwise identical, but that's just an assumption.
 
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"B - the longer stroke gives the piston a greater “lever” with which to move the crank."

"The longer stroke applies more leverage to the crankshaft. This increases twist, which is expressed in torque.
Basic engineering."

True.

Torque is a twisting force applied by a lever "arm"

The greater the stroke length, the greater the Lever Arm applied to the crankshaft, so engine B would produce more torque and more power, all other things being equal.

P = T X ω

where P is power, T is torque, ω is the angulat velocity in rpm or radians per second.
 
A few things to agree upon for the sake of conversation:
- power is a product of work per unit of time
- torque is a product of force applied at a distance (perpendicular to the shortest line between point of application and point of revolution)
- work is a product of force applied over a distance of displacement
- force is a product of mass and acceleration
- pressure is a force applied evenly over an area

We will assume for the nature of the experiment that all other inputs are held constant (essentially identical) ... Comp Ratio, same bore size, valve lift and timing, etc ... We will assume the net result is that the cylinder pressure from combustion is the same for both engines. The only variable is the stroke.

By the assumptions above, the pressure is identical during combustion. So the force downward will be identical on both pistons. But the second engine (with longer stroke) has a greater lever arm with which to create rotational (angular) work. Hence, more torque.


EDIT... I see that Molakule posted his answer while I was typing out mine.
 
B - the longer stroke gives the piston a greater “lever” with which to move the crank.
Well put.
Kinda like using a long 1/2" breaker bar to apply more torque when necessary. More twist!
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." Archimedes. Perhaps he put the 400 crank and rods in the 350 Chevy bored .030" over?

1765334208202.webp
 
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As a point of clarification, Torque can be static or dynamic. (stationary or moving).

First of all, torque is not a force. That is a very common, and very wrong, statement. Torque is torque; it is a product of two things, those being force and distance.
Torque is a product; it's an output of a formula. The inputs are force and distance. T = F x D
T is torque
F is force
D is distance (and depending upon application, that "D" will either be a linear or angular distance)


In the static case, the "distance" is linear and represents the delta between the point of application of the force and the point of origin where revolution would be centered (perpendicular to the line). Static torque can exist without movement. For example, you could have a large 1.5" bolt that needs 300 ft-lb of torque to remove the nut from the bolt. If you only apply 100 ft-lb of torque, the nut will not revolve on the axis of the bolt and will not move. But torque still does exist, yet not in a magnitude sufficient to move the nut. In the static sense, no work is being done.

Dynamic torque exists when the product of force and distance are sufficient to create revolving movement, inherent in the system design (whatever that might be comprised of). In this case, distance is measured in terms of angular displacement (typically radians are the UoM). Because there is movement, work is being done.


If we took the layman's description and put it into a formula, it would look like this:
"Torque is a force."
T = F
Obviously, that is an incomplete and false statement.

My point being that one should never say "torque is a force". That's not right. It's also not right to say "torque is a rotational force", because you're still leaving out one of the inputs. The CORRECT way to explain torque is that it is an output of two inputs; it is a product of a mathematical formula.
"Torque is a product of force applied at a linear distance, or through angular displacement"
TORQUE = F x D
 
All things considered the one with the longer stroke will have more torque. A few things could effect that like compression ratio, camshaft, intake port sizes etc.

Big ports,big valves too much cam would cause the power range to go up in rpm and possibly out of the required rpm.
 
Theoretically the longer stroke engine will make more torque. In my opinion…it will make more torque earlier in the operating range. There are other factors at play that determines any engine’s output. Bore size, cam profile, cylinder head flow-efficiency, and rod angularity. A good example of the factors mentioned above is the Buick 455. Compare its bore and stroke to other engines of the era. Big bore and short stroke. It was an amazing combination of all the factors designed for maximum torque.
 
Torque applied to a body depends on three quantities: the force applied, the lever arm r connecting the point about which the torque is being measured to the point of force application, and the angle between the force and lever arm r. In scalar symbols:

τ=rFsin⁡θ

So F = τ/rsin⁡θ, so a twisting force applied to a body results in torque.
 
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We have two single-cylinder gasoline engines with identical bores of 4 inches in diameter.

Engine A has a stroke of 3.125 inches.

Engine B has a stroke of 3.5 inches.

Which engine will produce more torque and why?
Doesn't this partially have something to do with oversquare vs undersquare engines?
 
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