So all finished gasoline leaving a terminal is the same?
Top Tier Gas a scam?
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Mind you every terminal is different. However, when I buy say, from Marathon - refinery direct or at a terminal. It’s all the same.
Now, marathon is trading with Shell currently in the area. So I can pull under the Shell card for branded fuel. And their premium is different than marathon premium.
But, let’s say I pull from a terminal on a pipeline like… the buckeye. I can pull unbranded, or branded Mobil premium, branded BP premium, I can pull unbranded Husky, unbranded Citgo, unbranded BP, etc.
If you look at a dispenser, you’ll notice only the premiums generally have marketing behind them. And, they will have their own additive tanks there, sometimes, for the premium.
But otherwise, yes. It’s all the same. If I pull from Ergon. They’re barging it up the river anyways. It is all the same unbranded fuel. It absolutely goes to “top tier” stations.
Top tier is a marketing program. And it works. Notice the top tier+ is sponsored by Afton… I wonder why. (Chem point is Afton’s distributor.)
Top Tier is a minimum standard which is higher than the EPA's minimum standard. All gasoline blends/octane sold at a Top Tier station has to meet the TT minimum standard, but it does not mean some blends may not have more additives than the others.
Added - After reading @Foxtrot08 's reply, I now question the validity of my statement above.
I know exactly what top tier is. We have about 500 gas stations and sell north of a half a billion gallons of fuel.
It's unclear to me how top tier gas can keep DI valves clean. I wonder if that claim is from the marketing department.
Sorry if it sounded like I was preaching to the choir.
In the Audi, which was DI only, I used Shell premium almost exclusively. With the Pilot, which is DI only also, I've been using mostly 87 octane, TT fuel from QT. When I changed the oil this weekend on the Pilot, the filter had quite a bit more carbon than I'd seen on the Audi's filters. Several have speculated it could be due to my using a different fuel.
@Foxtrot08 - I appreciate your knowledge and insight into this subject. What fuel do you use and why? Thank you.
It isn’t the fuel but the additive package. So the package is commonly added at the terminal before going into the tanker. A single terminal can load both types.
On the road - Shell.
At my office, I have literally my own gas station with 4 dispensers. So, we use unbranded 93e10 currently.
Something to think about when it comes to “top tier.”
Top tier only governs the additive package. You have to submit which fuel additive package you’re buying, to get approvals. You don’t even need to send samples anymore. Just if X fuel additive package, you get approval.
Fuel changes all the time. Is it coming from a refinery direct? Has it gone under a turn around recently? Is it coming off a pipeline? What refinery is it coming from? Did it come from overseas?
Important question, because every fuel, from every refinery is different.
The actual technical specifications of Top Tier, will only test between 8% and 10% ethanol. Well, reality is gasoline can have “up to” 10% ethanol. So anywhere between 0% and 10% ethanol. And, they don’t have to inform you how much is in there.
Top tier also does not apply to E0 gasoline - so if you use non-ethanol gasoline, it just doesn’t apply. The new 88 octane, E 15? Also doesn’t apply. E85? Also, doesn’t apply. And anything else besides E10 gas.
Fuel changes year around. Especially diesel fuel. Which is why we do quarterly fuel testing to see where we are at. We select 5 terminals and take samples. Have them run. Some of it may be branded. Some of it may be unbranded. It’s pretty wild how much fuel variation there is.
I have used Murpys gas for many years and never had an issue....
I like your friend!Everything is a scam my friend says
You know what's a big scam - glasses! I mean all health care might be a scam too but with insurance how can you tell?
Anyway, glasses... The mark ups for the coatings and special high index lenses, crazy!
Online prices seem less scammy...
Engines like the GenV small block have the injector angled towards the intake valves.
How do you know its "well above". There marketing material simply says its "above"? The spec says it must test to " IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves."
The EPA current standard minimum is 100mg. So there is that, however the penalty for a supplier missing the 100mg standard is very, very severe, so I wonder how many run the absolute minimum? And I wonder how much gets you from 100 to 50?
Raw gas my understanding would give you in the 250mg range, for whatever that is worth.
The rest of the spec as best I can tell is pretty muchr FERC, and ASTM standards. As mentioned BP / Amoco also guarantees a higher level.
Honest question. I don't think its a scam, but I am unsure if its "all that" either?
A can of techron every now and then might be worth it either way.
Other than the additive package and amount added to the truck it would be the same.
Everything you said I have heard before and agree with.
However how do you square the circle on TT being "IVD is no more than 50 mg averaged over all intake valves" and FERC being 100mg? This is the only part that remains a mystery to me? Do stations ad something on site (or are supposed to?)
Yes, but those additives are certified by the EPA to meet the requirements. Changes in the base fuel would not significantly change the performance.
Stations definitely do not add anything on site.
I would guess that it’s something more so lost in verbiage between groups. It would be hard to say without getting both stake holders in the same room and being like “yo, *** mate?”
Sometimes what someone is thinking just doesn’t match up on paper.
No its added at the terminal to the truck. A truck going to non top tier station may have 100mL of additive added while the top tier may be 300-500mL.
What?
Okay. We will disagree. Because base fuel changes alot year around. And yes, the EPA fuel additive list is public information. As, there’s only a handful of primary players that can do the engine testing anyways. Afton, innospec, Oronite (Chevron), infinium and Lubrizol.
Well above.. above. Semantics.
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