Too Late/Unsafe To Change Tranny Fluid

[Gary Allan]

Well, I don't KNOW ..but I imagine any of the friction material probably ends up in the pan. I wouldn't think that it turns the fluid into Type F

But that doesn't alter the state of the trans even if it's got some truth to it.

..but to extend your statement there ..I never quite figured out how highly friction modified fluid became a requirement for something that uses friction material to function. This complication seems to be another engineer's legacy for his sake. Although the modality of fluid routing and whatnot has changed, I don't really see how shifting has been altered since the later part of the 50's.

(no-one needs to mention lockup converters).

 

[Kestas]

It's been suggested that this explosion of different fluid types on the market is to overcome (or mask) design problems with all the different transmission. I too don't see why there should be any more that two different types of fluid on the market - regular and synthetic.

 

[SteveU]

I did a complete fluid exchange on my 93 Corolla at 131,000 mi using 12 qts for a 9.6 qt system. This was the first time this had been done on this vehicle. It now has 141,400 mi on it & still shifts better than when I first got it. Used Amsoil universal atf, stuff replaced was original fluid from factory. No leaks, slipping, or other problems, does what it'd supposed to even in this below 0*F weather.

 

[onion]

The way I figure... if new fluid is going to ruin the transmission, then it wouldn't have lasted long anyway. I changed the tranny fluid several years ago on a '96 Olds Achieva with 188,000 miles. I have no way of knowing if it had ever been done before, but the fluid was brown and smelled a bit toasty. I installed a drain plug in the pan like I always do the first time I remove one. Then I drove it for about a week and did a drain/fill again just in case. The only noticeable effect was that the transmission shifted much more smoothly. I drove it for several thousand more miles, sold it... and I know it was still running a year later.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Sorry for the post resurrection, but when you drop the pan, will this allow all of the fluid to get out, besides that in the torque converter? or would this be the same amount of fluid being released as using the drain plug?

 

[Lonnie]

If you want the safest path, drain what you can and refill with the correct kind of replacement fluid. If you're at about 60k you can then set a schedule to drain and refill, say every 15k miles. Any kind of flushing is a risk you might now want to take. This plan is safe and well proven and inexpensive. You can start adding synthetic atf if you choose. I use Red Line D4 in my to auto trans cars and do the drain and refill every 15k miles. It takes about 4qts per car, per refill. In a fleet I'm involved with that's exactly what they do. They never flush, it's been a cause of failed seals in the past. There is one part of the fleet that has about 20 Tundra's and they keep them for 200k miles or until they are crashed. With this plan they have never had a transmission problem and these truck work a bit harder than the average car.

Instead of going to a quickie lube place or a dealer and letting them flush your transmission you could paint an "S" on your forehead, stand on the corner and wave to people passing by. That will at least save you a hundred bucks.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Thanks for the advice. I don't know when the fluid was changed last. I'm assuming it was done at least once, around when the timing belt was serviced, etc., at 72k miles (now at 122k). I ordered 3 quarts of synthetic ATF from Amsoil and i'll just drain from the plug and add that, then continue to do that at every oil change until it looks better

 

[sky jumper]

amsoil is a good choice, but my advice -- don't use it for the first 2-3 drain/fills. you'll just end up mixing it with old dirty fluid, and then dumping most of it in subsequent drain/fills - a waste of pricey ATF. instead use the cheapest dexIII you can find for the first 3 drain/fills. then do another 2-3 with the amsoil. if you ambitious, drop the pan after the first 3 cheapo drain/fills and clean the magnets (best not to do this first off b/c the magnets will just gunk up again when the still dirty fluid flows over them). also, consider the cooler line exchange technique after the pan drop. this will finish off the "flush" in one final step.

 

[chefwong]

Here's another angle from another poster on a different topic.

_________

A common failure mode is the failure of a sensor, actuator, or electrical control inside the transmission, apart from the usual failures due to a constriction in the valve body due to dirt or band/clutch material.

When something fails, hydraulic pressure is blocked and the transmission can slip, causing heat buildup, and then burning of the fluid, and ultimately failure of the bands or clutch packs. People have changed the fluid in hopes of preventing the burned fluid, but IMO the burned fluid is a result, not a cause. Changing fluid that is not burnt has zero benefit. Yes, you can take contaminants out that are in suspension, but what happens in practice is that those contaminants are sitting in the filter, and opening up the system just moves them around. Failures are just as likely to happen as a result of a fluid change as they are to be prevented by a fluid change.

Why is this different than the old days? Tighter tolerances, more complex shifting (soft shifts, etc), more electronics in the transmission, etc. There is simply more to fail. I don't think the mechanical aspects of the transmission are what fails, I think the ancillary parts fail and cause a mechanical failure due to slipping and overheating. I don't have empirical evidence for that, but from following a lot of posts, and having worked on automatic transmissions over the years, it is my best guess.

Best suggestion is to ensure there is sufficient fluid in it, keep it clean, and run it until it fails. For the last six months prior to failure, put some money aside each month to pay for the replacement. Now you just have to figure out when it is going to fail. That can happen anytime after 100,000 miles IMO.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Quote:

---

amsoil is a good choice, but my advice -- don't use it for the first 2-3 drain/fills. you'll just end up mixing it with old dirty fluid, and then dumping most of it in subsequent drain/fills - a waste of pricey ATF. instead use the cheapest dexIII you can find for the first 3 drain/fills. then do another 2-3 with the amsoil. if you ambitious, drop the pan after the first 3 cheapo drain/fills and clean the magnets (best not to do this first off b/c the magnets will just gunk up again when the still dirty fluid flows over them). also, consider the cooler line exchange technique after the pan drop. this will finish off the "flush" in one final step.

---

I'm sorry but i'm not familiar with the cooler line exchange technique...

 

[sky jumper]

basically you pump the old ATF out the cooler return line a couple quarts at a time while adding the same amount of fresh expensive synthetic ATF (like your amsoil) down the filler tube. do this until you've exchanged the full capacity. there is still some minimal fluid mixing, but if you do it after 3 drain/fills it's not such a waste b/c it will not contaminate the fresh amsoil so much.

if you're not comfortable working on cars you may not want to try this. simple drain/fills over time will accomplish the same thing, but it will take more fresh fluid due to more mixing.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I'm pretty comfortable working on cars, I can handle oil changes and the likes of those kinds of things. I'm not really sure where the cooler return line is, however, or what precautions to take.

 

[bdai]

Do you know how to find the transmission? There should be two hoses coming out of it and going to the radiator (or a smaller transmission cooler in front of the main radiator).

The procedure I use in my car is to drain the pan (4 qts out), add 7 qts (3 qts overfilled), pump out 6 quarts through the return line (3 qts low), then add 2.5 qts and bring it up to the full mark while the transmission is running.

 

[ThirdeYe]

I was thinking that maybe just adding and draining a couple of times (driving about 10 miles in between each drain) would work for me. I don't know where the drain pan is exactly, but when I get my car back from the body shop i'll take a look at it. According to the Helm's manual, it shows the drain plug being on the right transmission housing, does this sound correct? Is this the pan that I need to take off?

 

[bdai]

You might have more luck at an Integra-specific forum, or you can wait for someone who owns one here to find your thread. It's different between each car - in some cars, you should drop the pan and replace the filter. In others, there is no serviceable filter and you just drain fluid through a drain plug.

In most cars, the drain plug is the biggest bolt near the bottom of the transmission housing. If you crawl under and see only one bolt of that size, and it's close to the bottom, more likely than not it'll be the drain plug.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Well, I know the size of the bolt is 18mm, and according to the picture in the helm's it's on the bottom right of the transmission housing (close to the front right wheel). I'm sure i'll be able to find it

I'll take a look and see if there's a pan/filter to clean as well. Thanks for the advice. I know on the MT integras, you have to take off the passenger front wheel and the bolt is right there, behind the brakes, but I believe it's different for the AT integras.

 

[Doc8404]

although i've had my 2001 with 92k flushed 3-4 times, after i drop the pan next month, I'll be doing the drain plug removal and top off method from now on.