Titanium in oils - could some please EXPLAIN it???

[addyguy]

The newest Kendall oils use 'titanium' in their add-pack to reduce wear. What 'titanium' IS this?

Is it a solid, like graphite? Is it a metallic additive like zinc that reduces wear? Is it like lead napthenate?

What are it's benefits? Is it the way of the future?

Mola, Bruce....anyone?

 

[CharlieJ]

I am curious as well. I see this advertisement on the BITOG forum list quite often.

 

[saberz]

If my engine had a scary guy like that in it, i'd use the Titanium enhanced oil. For now though, he's like a little Gizmo, harmless until you feed him after midnight..

 

[DieselTech]

Most forums I'm on the sponsors themselves or reps for the company are involved in discussions. This is one thing I wish BITOG would mandate from sponsors. Until I hear something from somebody that can explain this technology I call [censored], it's a gimmick

 

[EricF]

maybe "titanium" is the term some brake mfgr's like bendix advertise.. 2 blue stripes of good that assist in pad break-in, but are nothing more than semi-metallic's in disquise.

 

[outrun]

Do we have a VOA of this product and viscosity? It is possible to be some kind of Organo-Metallic molecule. Then again I would assume this would be an expensive synthesis of an already expensive metal. Carbon can essentially bond with anything experimentally.

X-C-Ti-X?

http://www.princeton.edu/~jsgroup/la010595r175.pdf

 

[jmac]

I was skeptical, but it appears that they actually do have a organo-metallic additive with titanium in it.
Listed in the PDS, titanium %weight - .010 (i.e. 100 ppm), zinc - .126,
http://www.conocophillipslubricants.com/...20TDS%20Web.pdf

also distinct verbage in the text pointing to more than just a marketing name, and press releases earlier mention working with an additive supplier with titanium included.

mm, anyone else think of Milo?

 

[Jason8691]

That is odd, I would think that small pieces of metal that are harder than steel would not be good for an engine.

 

[Gary Allan]

Yeah, Titanium is harder than Teflon ..so it doesn't tend to inspire good thoughts about it.

That said, I'm hoping Bruce is still into brewing light weight oils for his entertainment (and giving me a more purposeful feeling) and a new "Titanium Shield 0w" oil will be born. I think he wanted to go ashless next time ...so it may not be in the mix.

 

[jmac]

These are not small pieces of metal any more than any other metals in the additive are small solid pieces of metal such as moly, zinc, antimony, barium ect. These are elemental atoms that make up a high molecular weight molecule bonded with carbon, hydrogen, and others wich is why it is called organo-metallic. Organo coming from Organic Chemistry concerned with those molecules that contain Carbon-Hydrogen bonds.

 

[Gary Allan]

Sure. It's an associative ..or mis-associative thing.

Now it will be marketed on that same mis-association.

Experience the STRENGTH of TITANIUM SHIELD!!! Right up there with "90% of all wear occurs at startup".

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: jmac
These are not small pieces of metal any more than any other metals in the additive are small solid pieces of metal such as moly, zinc, antimony, barium ect. These are elemental atoms that make up a high molecular weight molecule bonded with carbon, hydrogen, and others wich is why it is called organo-metallic. Organo coming from Organic Chemistry concerned with those molecules that contain Carbon-Hydrogen bonds.


Yeah,I guess that explains it pretty well.

 

[jmac]

You betcha!

News releases from the company do discuss that this is why they chose to go with the "Liquid Titanium" logo instead of just plain "Titanium" though.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Yeah,I guess that explains it pretty well.

He's saying the particles of titanium in these oils are so small that they will not be abrasive, just like the "particles" of metal that you see in a UOA or VOA.

 

[outrun]

Thank you JMAC,

I am shocked people confuse elemental Titanium atoms binded to a via covalent and or ionic bonds to be chunks of it floating in suspension. If that is your reasoning ZDDP is dangerous since it contains "suspended zinc."

Perhaps a better post tangent should now be what is this Organo-Metallic molecule containing Titanium. Second, what is its functionality. Finally, is this something innovative enough for other blenders in-light of SM mandated ZDDP reductions.

 

[lexus114]

Got it! Thanx for clarifying that for me.

 

[Ken2]

The titanium is an organic compound soluble in oil produced by a reaction between titanium akloxide and a carboxylic acid. ConocoPhillips press releases have said that they can see metallic titanium deposited on wear points in the engine.

Afton Chemical invented this mainly to provide the benefits of moly without moly's high cost. So far, ConocoPhillips has the exclusive rights to this product.

Here's one form of Afton's patent: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1795582.pdf

 

[jmac]

Very enlightening, Thanks Ken!

I really like that cam lobe wear reduction in sequence IVA test results over the non-Ti containing formula. Very decent!

 

[Nick R]

I know it's not important, but titanium does not bond molecularly (covalent), it bonds ionically. Only non-metals can bond with covalent bonds.

 

[Steve S]

I am almost positive Titanium has been used in the past as an additive.