Tire Rotation Interval Recommendation
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My rule of thumb is whenever I feel a sharp edge on the landing end of the front tire (of my FWD cars), it is time to rotate. Usually that works out to be 4k miles.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Further, tires with the best tread should be mounted on the REAR of the car, not the front.
That would pretty much preclude ever rotating tires on a FWD vehicle.
Further, tires with the best tread should be mounted on the REAR of the car, not the front.
That would pretty much preclude ever rotating tires on a FWD vehicle.
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Originally Posted By: Carbon
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Further, tires with the best tread should be mounted on the REAR of the car, not the front.
That would pretty much preclude ever rotating tires on a FWD vehicle.
Not really, it means that you rotate often enough so that they don't become appreciably different.
If you neglect the rotation, as most people do, then yeah, on a FWD, you wait until the front pair are worn out...and then mount the new tires on the rear of the car...
Did you check out the article on Tire Rack?
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Further, tires with the best tread should be mounted on the REAR of the car, not the front.
That would pretty much preclude ever rotating tires on a FWD vehicle.
Not really, it means that you rotate often enough so that they don't become appreciably different.
If you neglect the rotation, as most people do, then yeah, on a FWD, you wait until the front pair are worn out...and then mount the new tires on the rear of the car...
Did you check out the article on Tire Rack?
Originally Posted By: bigmike
I always put the best tread on front. I want to be able to steer out of a skid.
Interesting how many people believe that logic...kinda' reminds me of my elderly neighbor up the street, back when the mandatory seatbelt laws were first enacted...she refused to believe the belt could help her, she preferred to remain unbelted so that she would be "thrown clear" in a crash...
Tire Rack says new tires on the rear: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52
And Firestone: http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/tires/mounting.jsp
So does Michelin: http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/how-to-buy/
I didn't have time to surf every tire manufacturer website, but the ones I did were all consistent. Take a look at the video on MIchelin's site...if the fronts are the first to hydroplane, you'll feel it in the steering and you can compensate earlier. If the rears are the first to hydroplane, you're spinning, not steering...
I try to keep the tread wear even through rotation, so that I am never in the position of having one end of the car with better grip than the other. Then I replace all 4 at the same time. But if I ever have to get just 2 new tires, you bet, they're going on the rear...
I always put the best tread on front. I want to be able to steer out of a skid.
Interesting how many people believe that logic...kinda' reminds me of my elderly neighbor up the street, back when the mandatory seatbelt laws were first enacted...she refused to believe the belt could help her, she preferred to remain unbelted so that she would be "thrown clear" in a crash...
Tire Rack says new tires on the rear: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52
And Firestone: http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/tires/mounting.jsp
So does Michelin: http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/how-to-buy/
I didn't have time to surf every tire manufacturer website, but the ones I did were all consistent. Take a look at the video on MIchelin's site...if the fronts are the first to hydroplane, you'll feel it in the steering and you can compensate earlier. If the rears are the first to hydroplane, you're spinning, not steering...
I try to keep the tread wear even through rotation, so that I am never in the position of having one end of the car with better grip than the other. Then I replace all 4 at the same time. But if I ever have to get just 2 new tires, you bet, they're going on the rear...
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Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Since I've always had FWD vehicles, I've been told to watch the tread depth of the tires. On a front wheel drive vehicle, the rear tires are basically "dragging" along. So the rear wear quicker than the front tires.
are you sure?
every single FWD car I've come across wear the fronts at about 2 - 3x the rate of the rears.
Since I've always had FWD vehicles, I've been told to watch the tread depth of the tires. On a front wheel drive vehicle, the rear tires are basically "dragging" along. So the rear wear quicker than the front tires.
are you sure?
every single FWD car I've come across wear the fronts at about 2 - 3x the rate of the rears.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: bigmike
I always put the best tread on front. I want to be able to steer out of a skid.
Interesting how many people believe that logic...kinda' reminds me of my elderly neighbor up the street, back when the mandatory seatbelt laws were first enacted...she refused to believe the belt could help her, she preferred to remain unbelted so that she would be "thrown clear" in a crash...
Tire Rack says new tires on the rear: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52
And Firestone: http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/tires/mounting.jsp
So does Michelin: http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/how-to-buy/
I didn't have time to surf every tire manufacturer website, but the ones I did were all consistent. Take a look at the video on MIchelin's site...if the fronts are the first to hydroplane, you'll feel it in the steering and you can compensate earlier. If the rears are the first to hydroplane, you're spinning, not steering...
I try to keep the tread wear even through rotation, so that I am never in the position of having one end of the car with better grip than the other. Then I replace all 4 at the same time. But if I ever have to get just 2 new tires, you bet, they're going on the rear...
Yeah, I've actually seen many of those recommendations. They have a fancy demonstration poster down at my local Firestone. Even the manager shakes his head at it, but says he has to post it.
Again, if the new tires are on the front and worn on the back, the worst that happens is a fishtail. I can steer out of that, unless it's tight spaces. On worn tires, I'm more concerned about a blow out or a flat than a hydroplane. Remember, I grew up in Florida where driving in the rain is secondary nature.
All manufacturers care about is liability. If the person is too stupid to drive according to conditions, they're more likely to hydroplane in the scenario you describe.
BTW, I think wearing a seatbelt is a good idea.
Originally Posted By: bigmike
I always put the best tread on front. I want to be able to steer out of a skid.
Interesting how many people believe that logic...kinda' reminds me of my elderly neighbor up the street, back when the mandatory seatbelt laws were first enacted...she refused to believe the belt could help her, she preferred to remain unbelted so that she would be "thrown clear" in a crash...
Tire Rack says new tires on the rear: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=52
And Firestone: http://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/tires/mounting.jsp
So does Michelin: http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/how-to-buy/
I didn't have time to surf every tire manufacturer website, but the ones I did were all consistent. Take a look at the video on MIchelin's site...if the fronts are the first to hydroplane, you'll feel it in the steering and you can compensate earlier. If the rears are the first to hydroplane, you're spinning, not steering...
I try to keep the tread wear even through rotation, so that I am never in the position of having one end of the car with better grip than the other. Then I replace all 4 at the same time. But if I ever have to get just 2 new tires, you bet, they're going on the rear...
Yeah, I've actually seen many of those recommendations. They have a fancy demonstration poster down at my local Firestone. Even the manager shakes his head at it, but says he has to post it.
Again, if the new tires are on the front and worn on the back, the worst that happens is a fishtail. I can steer out of that, unless it's tight spaces. On worn tires, I'm more concerned about a blow out or a flat than a hydroplane. Remember, I grew up in Florida where driving in the rain is secondary nature.
All manufacturers care about is liability. If the person is too stupid to drive according to conditions, they're more likely to hydroplane in the scenario you describe.
BTW, I think wearing a seatbelt is a good idea.
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I am going to chalenge the following statement:
Originally Posted By: bigmike
.........Again, if the new tires are on the front and worn on the back, the worst that happens is a fishtail.........
Here's a video that says that there are worse things that happen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPYBArQQVAE
But in trying to sort this out, I'd be interested in any links that recommend or demonstrate that worn tires on the front are better.
Originally Posted By: bigmike
.........Again, if the new tires are on the front and worn on the back, the worst that happens is a fishtail.........
Here's a video that says that there are worse things that happen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPYBArQQVAE
But in trying to sort this out, I'd be interested in any links that recommend or demonstrate that worn tires on the front are better.
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Again, if the new tires are on the front and worn on the back, the worst that happens is a fishtail. I can steer out of that, unless it's tight spaces.
I think it was Michelin who did that demonstration, with new tires on the front vs. the rear. Even professional drivers in the auto industry could not control the car when it oversteered, even when they knew it was going to happen.
From Tire Rack's article:
Quote:
And even though our drivers had the advantage of knowing we were going to be challenged to maintain car control, spinouts became common during our laps in the car with the new tires on the front and the worn tires on the rear. Michelin advises us that almost every driver spins out at least once when participating in this demonstration!
An understeer situation is almost always safer than an oversteer situation.
http://www.northwoodgarage.net/4024/new-tires-on-the-rear/
There's a small version of the video on that page. I'm sure a larger version is available.
Again, if the new tires are on the front and worn on the back, the worst that happens is a fishtail. I can steer out of that, unless it's tight spaces.
I think it was Michelin who did that demonstration, with new tires on the front vs. the rear. Even professional drivers in the auto industry could not control the car when it oversteered, even when they knew it was going to happen.
From Tire Rack's article:
Quote:
And even though our drivers had the advantage of knowing we were going to be challenged to maintain car control, spinouts became common during our laps in the car with the new tires on the front and the worn tires on the rear. Michelin advises us that almost every driver spins out at least once when participating in this demonstration!
An understeer situation is almost always safer than an oversteer situation.
http://www.northwoodgarage.net/4024/new-tires-on-the-rear/
There's a small version of the video on that page. I'm sure a larger version is available.
Personally, I find the argument to be somewhat silly. Litigation and lawyers write up recommendations.
Most roads I travel on are straight roads, with turns at stop signs and lights. I might encounter a sweeping radius turn a few times every day at most. Driving according to conditions, nobody would hydroplane on a sweeping wet curve, if it is known. But, we all know how people drive and this is not an ideal world.
The idea behind most of the recommendations I have come across that believe the new rear tire method has been because most of your vehicular restraint systems are designed for frontal collisions, which would describe an understeer situation where the driver slid off the road.
Most people hit their brakes in a sweeping curve once a hydroplane situation is occurring. This action would be best in an understeer, but not in an oversteer.
I might be different, and I expect that I am, than most drivers. Have you seen most drivers? That said, most of your horrific wrecks are resulting from either the vehicle flipping or head on collisions. Oversteered cars usually hit rear first if uncontrolled. I suppose it is up to you in how you would like to mount new tires, but I'll choose according to my driving habits.
I suppose there is a basic list of good reasons for mounting new tires on the front:
1. Front flats and blowouts are harder to control, dependent on speed conditions.
2. Most FWD vehicles front tires wear more. This is more of a cost approach issue.
3. Water is displaced by the front tires.
4. Hydroplaning with new tires on the front is reduced risk for the front tires hydroplaning, but enhances worn rear hydroplaning. You'll need to decide how risky you drive to determine if this is good or bad.
All my years of driving in Florida wet weather and I have hydroplaned twice. I've had more flats and blowouts than that.
I suspect that people here buy alot more summer and all season tires than other Northern states. I have to wonder if this plays a role in our thinking.
Most roads I travel on are straight roads, with turns at stop signs and lights. I might encounter a sweeping radius turn a few times every day at most. Driving according to conditions, nobody would hydroplane on a sweeping wet curve, if it is known. But, we all know how people drive and this is not an ideal world.
The idea behind most of the recommendations I have come across that believe the new rear tire method has been because most of your vehicular restraint systems are designed for frontal collisions, which would describe an understeer situation where the driver slid off the road.
Most people hit their brakes in a sweeping curve once a hydroplane situation is occurring. This action would be best in an understeer, but not in an oversteer.
I might be different, and I expect that I am, than most drivers. Have you seen most drivers? That said, most of your horrific wrecks are resulting from either the vehicle flipping or head on collisions. Oversteered cars usually hit rear first if uncontrolled. I suppose it is up to you in how you would like to mount new tires, but I'll choose according to my driving habits.
I suppose there is a basic list of good reasons for mounting new tires on the front:
1. Front flats and blowouts are harder to control, dependent on speed conditions.
2. Most FWD vehicles front tires wear more. This is more of a cost approach issue.
3. Water is displaced by the front tires.
4. Hydroplaning with new tires on the front is reduced risk for the front tires hydroplaning, but enhances worn rear hydroplaning. You'll need to decide how risky you drive to determine if this is good or bad.
All my years of driving in Florida wet weather and I have hydroplaned twice. I've had more flats and blowouts than that.
I suspect that people here buy alot more summer and all season tires than other Northern states. I have to wonder if this plays a role in our thinking.
I understand. I think the point is that you can feel the loss through the steering in time to react...while you can't feel the loss at the rear as easily. But the hydroplaning and snow consideration is important - a genuine hydroplane or slide in snow is not always controllable...it's not "just a fishtail" in many instances - the car swaps ends quick and you wreck.
Used to watch all the "flatlanders" drive that way in the snow when I was still in Vermont...you can feel the traction through the slip angle in the steering...so put the tires that are most worn (first to slip) on the front to feel the conditions BEFORE the loss of control...
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
And I am glad you wear your seatbelt.
Used to watch all the "flatlanders" drive that way in the snow when I was still in Vermont...you can feel the traction through the slip angle in the steering...so put the tires that are most worn (first to slip) on the front to feel the conditions BEFORE the loss of control...
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
And I am glad you wear your seatbelt.
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
Avoiding the problem altogether is definitely the best practice. On other threads, I've advocated checking tread depth often. I prefer something better than a penny, like a depth gauge seen here, so I can document the wear patterns:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Products/Honda-Tire-Tread-Depth-Gauge__HT008.aspx
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
Avoiding the problem altogether is definitely the best practice. On other threads, I've advocated checking tread depth often. I prefer something better than a penny, like a depth gauge seen here, so I can document the wear patterns:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Products/Honda-Tire-Tread-Depth-Gauge__HT008.aspx
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
Avoiding the problem altogether is definitely the best practice. On other threads, I've advocated checking tread depth often. I prefer something better than a penny, like a depth gauge seen here, so I can document the wear patterns:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Products/Honda-Tire-Tread-Depth-Gauge__HT008.aspx
Wow...that's a really nice looking gauge! Mine is a cheap little widget with a pencil-type indicator that shows depth...and I use it fairly often...
Cheers,
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
Avoiding the problem altogether is definitely the best practice. On other threads, I've advocated checking tread depth often. I prefer something better than a penny, like a depth gauge seen here, so I can document the wear patterns:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Products/Honda-Tire-Tread-Depth-Gauge__HT008.aspx
Wow...that's a really nice looking gauge! Mine is a cheap little widget with a pencil-type indicator that shows depth...and I use it fairly often...
Cheers,
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Since I've always had FWD vehicles, I've been told to watch the tread depth of the tires. On a front wheel drive vehicle, the rear tires are basically "dragging" along. So the rear wear quicker than the front tires.
I had a set of tires on my sister's 84 Horizon where the rears lasted 100K. I had to change them because of rot, not wear.
Since I've always had FWD vehicles, I've been told to watch the tread depth of the tires. On a front wheel drive vehicle, the rear tires are basically "dragging" along. So the rear wear quicker than the front tires.
I had a set of tires on my sister's 84 Horizon where the rears lasted 100K. I had to change them because of rot, not wear.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
Avoiding the problem altogether is definitely the best practice. On other threads, I've advocated checking tread depth often. I prefer something better than a penny, like a depth gauge seen here, so I can document the wear patterns:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Products/Honda-Tire-Tread-Depth-Gauge__HT008.aspx
Wow...that's a really nice looking gauge! Mine is a cheap little widget with a pencil-type indicator that shows depth...and I use it fairly often...
Cheers,
It really is decent. I've used the pencil types until I got that one. I love it and it is of good weight, very clear to the eyes. However, I am concerned about dropping it, especially when I'm checking the inside tire wear. It reads in increments of 1/32nds.
Originally Posted By: bigmike
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Or, do as I first recommended, keep them rotated and wearing evenly. Then replace all 4 when worn out.
Avoiding the problem altogether is definitely the best practice. On other threads, I've advocated checking tread depth often. I prefer something better than a penny, like a depth gauge seen here, so I can document the wear patterns:
http://www.bernardiparts.com/Products/Honda-Tire-Tread-Depth-Gauge__HT008.aspx
Wow...that's a really nice looking gauge! Mine is a cheap little widget with a pencil-type indicator that shows depth...and I use it fairly often...
Cheers,
It really is decent. I've used the pencil types until I got that one. I love it and it is of good weight, very clear to the eyes. However, I am concerned about dropping it, especially when I'm checking the inside tire wear. It reads in increments of 1/32nds.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I had a set of tires on my sister's 84 Horizon where the rears lasted 100K. I had to change them because of rot, not wear.
I don't remember 84 Horizon cars lasting 100k, much less the tires on them. You must have got a creampuff, Kestas.
I had a set of tires on my sister's 84 Horizon where the rears lasted 100K. I had to change them because of rot, not wear.
I don't remember 84 Horizon cars lasting 100k, much less the tires on them. You must have got a creampuff, Kestas.
Kestas
Staff member
No, the car was a challenge. It's a reflection on the mechanic.
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