Tire Pressure

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Billy Bob says to put in 44 PSI because it says 44 max load
on the side of the tire. I tell him that is only if the
vehicle is Heavily Loaded!! I want to put in what it says
in the owners manual. Who is right?
 
I start with the doorjam pressure and go from there.

My 1997 TBird felt best when it was spot on 35PSI all around, just as it was spec'ed for. My 2 different Outbacks feel better bumped up a few pounds from factory specs.

Can't say I would ever run max PSI in a tire.
 
His tire will be way over inflated when the tire gets hot. The center tread will wear down very fast.
 
Originally Posted By: sunfire
His tire will be way over inflated when the tire gets hot.


"cold tire pressure" accounts for a bit of expansion when the tire/air heats up.

Quote:
The center tread will wear down very fast.


I don't know about "very fast," but it will wear faster than the edges.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbob
Billy Bob says to put in 44 PSI because it says 44 max load
on the side of the tire. I tell him that is only if the
vehicle is Heavily Loaded!! I want to put in what it says
in the owners manual. Who is right?


Sorry, but you are both wrong. Because I get this type of question so much, I wrote up a canned response:

*************************************

On every vehicle sold in the US - and I understand this is a worldwide practice as well - there is a sticker – commonly called the vehicle tire placard - that lists the original tire size and the proper pressure for that size. The placard is usually located on a doorpost or in the glove box – but sometimes it is located in the trunk or on the fuel filler door.

BTW, it doesn't matter who makes the tire or what pressure is listed on the tire's sidewall, if the tire size is the same as the placard, then the pressure listed on placard is also appropriate.

One word of caution: Some trucks use tires with the letters "LT" in front of the tire size - and some trucks use tires with the letter "P" in front of the tire size - and some trucks use tires with the letter "C" after the tire size. You should not use "P"'s in place of "LT"'s and vice versa.

For this situation, you should be sure the pressure on the sidewall equals or exceeds that pressure on the placard. If you do this the issue about the letter "C" in the sidewall will take care of itself (which is not true with "LT"'s vs "P"'s.)

If you are using a tire size that is different than what is listed on the placard, then the pressure has to be recalculated. The calculation is not difficult, but it requires tire load tables which are not allowed to be published in the Internet because of copyright laws. However, I have a copy and would be glad to do the calculation, but the starting point is the vehicle placard: Tire size and inflation pressure. I will also need to know the new tire size.

*************************************************

OK, that's a pretty generic answer and doesn't quite seem as friendly as it could be.

Well, first, Billy Bob is wrong simply because he just doesn't understand what the pressure written on the sidewall means. What is written there comes in a variety of configurations.

Sometimes it tells you about the maximum usable pressure - and in that case it will say something like:

Max Load XXXX, Max Pressure YY

Notice that the two things are NOT connected - that it only tells you what the max's are, but doesn't tell you at what pressure the max load occurs - which brings me to the second way this will appear:

Max Load XXXX at YY pressure.

Notice that this tells us when the maximum load carrying capacity occurs, but doesn't tell us what the maximum usable pressure is.

So back to what pressure should you put in your tires.

Some folks will disagree that the vehicle tire placard is the "correct" answer - and they have a point.

The vehicle tire placard is the vehicle manufacturer's specification. It takes into account the designed load carrying capacity of the vehicle, plus that pressure was extensively tested while the vehicle was in development. The springs, shocks, and sway bars were all sized with that pressure. You can have a great deal of confidence that that answer has a good solid basis.

But some (like myself) have a slightly different set of desireables. I like a car that is responsive - so I'll add 3 to 5 psi more. It does make the ride a little harsher, but I'm willing to put up with that.

Some folks will point to the Ford/ Firestone situaion some years back as proof that the vehicle tire placard is NOT the proper answer. I don't have enough room here to go through the whole thing, but while they have a point, it is misguided - and in particular, the vehicle manufacturers have learned from that and are now specifying larger sized tires.


But if you want an simple to remember rule, use the placard pressure. Just remember it only applies to the size written there.
 
Door Jam Sticker. Never see DT consult the the door jam sticker. 32 psi everytime. I adjust it when I get home. NASCAR adjusts HANDLING with 1/2 pound increments!
 
my truck rides great at 35PSI all around. I had a small tiny Suzuki Sidekick years ago and I ran that at 35 as well not because I didn't know better. But that's where my vehicles felt best. Doing this for years with lots of miles and never had to worry about tire wear from over inflation, but that's mostly due to the fact that all of my cars are fairly small. My current truck is a regular cab prerunner and it's got huge 265/70-16 so the truck's weight is well within the tires limits. I suppose it's little weight keeps wear down to start with?
 
For the recommended size and type of tire, I go by the sticker for the vehicle, and may add up to 5psi in some vehicles to adjust for ride/load.
What's on the tire sidewall is the manufacturer max for the tire - not a rating for the vehicle as a tire will work (fit) several different vehicles.
 
Also keep in mind that the accuracy of tire pressure gauges varies to a pretty large degree, so at the very least, check your pressures on all four tires with the same gauge regardless if it's a cheapo pencil gauge, a $100 racing gauge, or the one built into the compressor at the service station.
 
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Also keep in mind that the accuracy of tire pressure gauges varies to a pretty large degree, so at the very least, check your pressures on all four tires with the same gauge regardless if it's a cheapo pencil gauge, a $100 racing gauge, or the one built into the compressor at the service station.


I have a handful of gauges. I took pressure readings on a tire with all then kept the ones that were reading the same. The others that were off got culled into the garbage can. So then I ended up with 3 dial gauges and 1 digital, and 2 tire chucks with gauges. This way I checked them all and for the range I normally need them for.

About the same line as buying a thermometer in the store. Don't just grab the first one, go through a number of them and sometimes I find 1 or so indicating way off from the others.
 
easy. You are right. But the real question is if you are friends with them or not. If you are, correct them and if not, don't and watch their vehicle handle like [censored] and toast the tires.
 
I run 5-7 PSI over the placard. I've run $75 Walmart Tiger Paw Touring tires for 38 months/103,000 so far. They aren't down to the wear bars, and I expect to get 120K before changing them out this summer.

They do have a slightly harsher ride, but the handling feels better with increased pressure.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer

If you are using a tire size that is different than what is listed on the placard, then the pressure has to be recalculated. The calculation is not difficult, but it requires tire load tables which are not allowed to be published in the Internet because of copyright laws. However, I have a copy and would be glad to do the calculation, but the starting point is the vehicle placard: Tire size and inflation pressure. I will also need to know the new tire size.


OK, I'll bite
smile.gif


The vehicle is a 1998 BMW E39 with M Sport I suspension package. Although there are many wheel packages considered "original", mine came from the factory with 235/45/17 94Y. There are two sets of pressures on the placard:

"normal" load up to 4 persons: 29 front 33 rear
max weight rating: 33 front 41 rear

A common non sport package size for this chassis is 225/55/16 which is what I'm running in the winter on a set of factory take-offs. I've had a number of different snow tires of that size with load/speed ratings from ??Q to 95H. I presently have Hakkapeliitta RSis which are 225/55/16 99XL.

What's my placard conversion? Others may find the illustration informative and it would demonstrate the correlation of design pressures as size varies.

My dad's E39 came with 225/55/16 but he has a non-sport package and a different model which weighs more so I can't assume his placard pressures would necessarily apply to me. It will be interesting to see how the calculated results compare to his placard though.
 
I normally add 3-4 to the PSI listed on the door jamb on all our cars.

I do have a different "?" though: Can i keep doing that even with the snow/winter tires I get?
 
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
Originally Posted By: sunfire
His tire will be way over inflated when the tire gets hot.


"cold tire pressure" accounts for a bit of expansion when the tire/air heats up.


But if he is inflating the tire to 44 psi while the tire is cold then the tire will be around 48 psi when the tire gets hot. That's all I'm trying to say.

I've read here where someone inflated their tires to the max psi, which wore down the center tread in 20K miles. That's less than half the life of a tire's life. I consider that fast.
 
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Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
OK, I'll bite
smile.gif


The vehicle is a 1998 BMW E39 with M Sport I suspension package. Although there are many wheel packages considered "original", mine came from the factory with 235/45/17 94Y. There are two sets of pressures on the placard:

"normal" load up to 4 persons: 29 front 33 rear
max weight rating: 33 front 41 rear

..........


Whenever I do this sort of thing, I always check to see if the information supplied makes sense. Tire Guides is a publication that summarizes the vehicle tire placards for all vehicles sold in the US. There are 4 limitations to the book:

1) If the vehicle is not sold in the US, it will not be in the book.

2) If the vehicle is sold in the US under a different name, it will be listed as what it is sold as in the US. From a personal perspective, I am pretty good at figuring these things out, but not quite perfect.

3) If the vehicle has a different tire size when it is sold in the US, that is the size that will be listed.

4) The book only lists ONE pressure for each axle. It is not unusual for German cars to have 2 - normal and high speed/heavy load - so this presents a problem.

But the first problem is the vehicle identifcation. A 1998 BMW E39 is not listed in the book. I know from past experience that the "E39" refers to a particular model - in the same way a Mark 1 pre-facelift Capri refers to the models produced in the 1970 to 1972 range.

In this case E39 = 5 series. And the book lists 1998 to 2000 BMW 528i with 17" tires as 235/45R17 93W and the inflation pressure is listed as 29 / 33. That's a bit different that what was stated, (the load index and the speed rating) but it is not enough different to matter.

But, OK, that means the load carrying capacity of the tires is 1272# / 1380# / 1433#.

I find it interesting that a pressure of 41 psi is used, as the load carrying capacity quits increasing at 35 psi. I suspect this pressure is specified to maintain the front to rear balance.

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
.......A common non sport package size for this chassis is 225/55/16 which is what I'm running in the winter on a set of factory take-offs...........


In order to get the same load carrying capacities as a 235/45R17 gets at 29/33/41(35) psi, a 225/55R16 has to use 26/31/(33) psi. I put some of the pressures in paratheses to show that there is an issue that needs to be dealt with.

It is interesting that the 16" tire has a bit more rated load carrying capacity - and the result is a slight decrease in inflation pressure. Some folks think that maintaining a tire's spring rate is more important that matching the load carrying capacity, and they would opt (in this case) to using the original inflation pressures - and I'll go there! - and that makes the parathesis issue moot.

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
...... I've had a number of different snow tires of that size with load/speed ratings from ??Q to 95H. I presently have Hakkapeliitta RSis which are 225/55/16 99XL.

What's my placard conversion? Others may find the illustration informative and it would demonstrate the correlation of design pressures as size varies.

My dad's E39 came with 225/55/16 but he has a non-sport package and a different model which weighs more so I can't assume his placard pressures would necessarily apply to me. It will be interesting to see how the calculated results compare to his placard though.



So there you go. I think you'll find there is a difference between your Dad's car and what this calculation results in, but rather than discuss it now, I'll wait for you to post the info.
 
Capri:

My car is a 1998 528i with M Sport package. My dad's is a 2002 540iA with standard suspension. Both are/were also sold in the US as is.

I just ran and checked my original factory spare which matched the tires on the car at delivery. Dunlop SP Sport 2000E 235/45 ZR17 94Y. The PS2s I'm currently running are also 94Y. Other tires I have run in this size had slightly different load ratings (Toyo Proxes T1-S and T1R). Of course I don't need to tell you that we don't get much choice when it comes to load rating.

I don't know as much about the 225/55/16 all seasons which originally came on my dad's 540 but I know that his placard pressures are quite different. As I mentioned, I have had a few winter tires in that size with differing load ratings:

Michelin Arctic Alpins : 95Q (I think)
Dunlop Wintersport M3: 95H
current Hakka RSis: 99R XL (no non-XL choice)

In that same size, my dad has run a number of tires between two nearly identical E39s:

Michelin Pilot Alpin: 99H ?(I think)
Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2: 95H
Pirelli Snowsport 210
Michelin Pilot HX
Conti something-or-other
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S


So, if I understand correctly, you're saying that to go to the smaller tires the pressures actually go down? Yes they have higher load rating (by 1 or 2) but they also have a different contact patch and the weight of the car isn't changing... Is that just for my current 99XL rated Hakkas? What about tires around the more typical 95 load rating?

I'm shocked that the equivalent would be 26psi up front. While I don't have my dad's placard here, I know that's not what it says
smile.gif
You can probably look it up faster than I can find out, but it's something more like a 33/35 split.

When dealing with some issues with my Toyo T1-S a number of years ago which involved their regional manager, I ran sticker pressures of 29/33 for a little while to satisfy them. It's a smoother ride, but soft for my taste. I also felt vulnerable to wheel damage from potholes etc... running less than 30 up front. I'm usually running 3-4 psi higher than placard but maintaining the split. I found that my Dunlop M3s were very sensitive to pressure and the only way I could even come close to balancing the car was 34/34. If I even went 34/35 the rear started stepping out in fairly normal urban left turns. I don't know my Hakkas well enough to feel any difference in tuning yet. I know that the high load rating seems to have given them a stiffer carcass than a lot of other winter tires. The tread is still squirmy but the tire is rigid. I think I filled them to 34/36 "cold" in my garage, which wasn't as cold as outside. Perhaps I should lower them...

Thanks for taking the time to muddle through this.... I see three sides to things:

1/ load bearing
2/ tire "spring rate"
3/ tuning of the contact patch - setting a pressure which results in even wear and full utilization of the full width of the tread when pushing
 
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