The VAG 1.6 and 2.0 TDI that uses an oil pump belt has no known issues.
This may be because diesel fuel is less damaging to the belt than gas.
This may be because diesel fuel is less damaging to the belt than gas.
Timing belts that run in oil bath
- Thread starter Shel_B
- Start date
Where are you getting the idea that the oil pump siezed? If anything, there's less load on the oil pump because it's not pumping oil. Not only that, even with no oil to pump, there will still be residual oil film in the pump to keep it lubed. As seen in the video, the oil pump spun freely. By the time it becomes a problem for the oil pump, the engine will have spun bearings and destroyed itself.
Lifetime wet drive belt? Not on Ford's 1.0 ecoboost, it's a 150k maintenance item.
dnewton3
Staff member
The pump may not have seized; it may have just had a large load from increased drag. It's not designed to run with no oil in it, and that's going to lead to increased friction and drag and damage. Your comment of having less drag would be true for a very short period of time, and then the frictional increase from having no lube would exacerbate the issue well past "normal" pumping resistance.
Regardless, the engine was run without oil AND it also got extremely hot. Therefore the condition of the oil pump belt is not "normal" for that 97k miles of exposure. It is unfair to say the belt was in bad shape because of normal wear; it was destructive conditions that caused the belt to appear so bad.
I'm not advocating for the product. But I believe it's unfair to look at this one example, point to it and say "See; these belts don't last very long." It's an anecdotal example based on an uncommon failure mode which caused extreme unnatural conditions in the engine. That's not the fault of the belt; it was the victim of the conditions.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
https://www.autoblog.com/2024/01/10...f-the-focus-and-ecosport-over-engine-failure/
"Ford told the NHTSA that "the engine oil pump drive belt tensioner arm may fracture, separate from the tensioner backing plate, and/or the oil pump drive belt material may degrade and lose teeth." If the pump isn't spinning, the engine will experience a loss of oil pressure that can cause major damage. If the engine seizes, the car notably loses its power-operated brakes. Ford is aware of "one allegation of a crash and two injuries potentially related to this concern," though it's unaware of fatalities. It has received 2,099 warranty claims as of October 2023."
"Ford told the NHTSA that "the engine oil pump drive belt tensioner arm may fracture, separate from the tensioner backing plate, and/or the oil pump drive belt material may degrade and lose teeth." If the pump isn't spinning, the engine will experience a loss of oil pressure that can cause major damage. If the engine seizes, the car notably loses its power-operated brakes. Ford is aware of "one allegation of a crash and two injuries potentially related to this concern," though it's unaware of fatalities. It has received 2,099 warranty claims as of October 2023."
The way I see it is all automotive and other general public owned engines nowadays are disposable junk.
So many corners are being cut in the design and manufacturing process.
Every time some new "bad design" is implemented, it is marketed as some great new innovation that will supposedly improve on something. More times than not it becomes something that most everyone avoids or some unrelated company comes up with a fix to rid the problems the "innovation" has caused.
The topic a wet cogged drive belt ! My first question is how many jet airliners use these to drive the accessory section or oil pumps for the jet engines? Or how many multi million dollar cruise ship engines are using them for the cam drive system?
If all this stuff that is put on us/ you and I, is so good, everything should be using the same technology.
So many corners are being cut in the design and manufacturing process.
Every time some new "bad design" is implemented, it is marketed as some great new innovation that will supposedly improve on something. More times than not it becomes something that most everyone avoids or some unrelated company comes up with a fix to rid the problems the "innovation" has caused.
The topic a wet cogged drive belt ! My first question is how many jet airliners use these to drive the accessory section or oil pumps for the jet engines? Or how many multi million dollar cruise ship engines are using them for the cam drive system?
If all this stuff that is put on us/ you and I, is so good, everything should be using the same technology.
When Volkswagen testified at the Dieselgate hearing's they said that manufacturers considered 150k miles the lifespan of engines. So, I imagine the engineers keep this number in mind when designing. The days when products are over-engineered is long gone.
Do we have any of the OEM’s indicating that they designed for 300k lifespan? I’m of the opinion that, unless if it’s heavy duty equipment, that they never have. I’ve heard of the 10yr/150k mark a few times over the last decade, and I believe it, but I think all the prior cars that were able to troop well past it, regardless of designed service life, were part owner’s diligence and part good luck.
Just because it was “designed” for a 10yr/150k lifespan doesn’t mean it was designed to fail at 11yr/151k. Just that 90% will make that mark (with that 90% being pulled out of the air, it may have been 75%, 99%, take your pick—with some definition of what “making it” means—no trans rebuilds but a set of wheel bearings is ok? 1 out of 1000 needed an alternator? that sort of metric).
When wasn’t it? People have been buying and junking cars in all decades. And OEM’s have been constantly redesigning to reduce costs the entire time—and quite happy when a repeat buyer comes back in a short period of time. Cars are lasting longer than ever. While we can point to examples that aren’t (like this belt in oil fiasco), there’s plenty doing quite well. Average age and mileage on a car is higher than ever before.
We’re miffed because it seems more costly than ever to buy a new car, it sure is more expensive to buy a used one, repair costs are exploding, aftermarket parts are junk and no end to the supply chain woes nor to finding qualified technicians to do the work. And systems that used to be easy to understand by a layperson (“this cable pulls on this lever, which then moves this cog… oh I see why it’s not working”) have become more complicated and require more background training, and thus peeve us all the more.
Pointing to small block V8’s with their cylinder bores that could be bored out ignores the fact that they often required that to be done within short order, and that this reflected cost control in their own day—heavy duty trucks have been using replaceable cylinder liners for quite some time, allowing for “easy” in frame rebuilds.
This number was used for the finding of extended warranty on diesel cars VW repaired/reprogrammed/sold/resold. It is available in the thousands of pages of transcriptions. You can find it online with a google search. I bought two VW's in spring of 2017. They were both brand new. The regular inherent warranty was extended to include a 12 years and 162,000 mile, zero deductible warranty for a plethora of components that had any effect on emissions, even tangentially. It also included three program changes along with a couple hardware changes. I have had two software and the first hardware change done on one vehicle. The other vehicle only has the one initial software update. The final hardware change includes replacing the DPF system but is only needed when the original system shows at least 50% lifetime persistent ash load. Both my vehicles are still in the single digits for this number. You can see where the judge extended the manufacturers assertion of its 10/150 claim to 12/162.
When the correct materials were used.
The required to be done with in short order. Yeah like timing chains that won't last to 100K miles and head gaskets on the now cars that blow before 70K. The new stuff problems are from crappy engineering and crappy materials. The old stuff problems were from neglect.