Time for Battery Replacement/Upgrade

paulo57509

paulo57509

Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Messages
4,459
Location
CA
Yesterday afternoon, after listening to the radio for ~10 minutes (in accessory mode), the starter in the Highlander decided just decided to do the click-click. The engine started right up after connecting jumper cables.

This morning, I tested the battery/starting/charging systems with a Foxwell BT-705 and everything checked out OK; it did read, "Charge the battery;" 12.7 Volts. Also, the vehicle started without issue.

I think the battery is the original that was installed at assembly (6/2021; Toyota P/N 380LN3-ISS); battery is +4 years old. This battery is an EFB. I'm thinking an AGM would be a worthwhile upgrade?

20251012_101802 - resized.webp

Next to the (+) terminal - Is that a date code?

Note: Visually, I gave the battery connections a pass. I didn't want to deal with having to go thru the re-initialization steps.
 
My 7 year old battery in my Equinox died on me yesterday. I didn't check anything, just removed it and replaced it. I got a AGM battery that had a slightly higher amp rating then my old one. I've used AGM batteries for years in my motorcycles and alway gotten good life out of them. If AGM's were that bad, it would be all over the web about how bad they are. I have a feeling it may outlast the car.,,
 
I replaced the efb in my 21 last December with a deka flooded and no issues. I do charge my cars quite often and I just checked the battery the other day and it’s still 100% healthy and way more CCAs than advertised. My charging system is going to undercharge any battery I use and low volt charging is never good for an agm.
 
I put a Walmart AGM in a friends Highlander a year or so ago, working great.

Battery manufacturer recommendations are mixed, with some saying it is fine to upgrade from and EFB to AGM, just never in the reverse.
But there are some that claim it is advisable to stick with EFB, if that is what it came with.
 
Last edited:
Little snippet towards the end of the video. A customer at a dealer was cheap and had a traditional flooded battery installed instead of sticking to an EFB. I know the thread starter is speaking of an AGM, but I feel a need to do a PSA because people are essentially equating an EFB battery to a traditional flooded battery.

 
I did a few more searches, and Yuasa, Optima and Varta state it is fine to replace an EFB with an AGM. The above video seems to imply "it depends", and to check the application guide as to whether an EFB can be replaced with an AGM. The concern is whether the vehicle manufacturer has optimized the charging system for the EFB or not.
 
EFBs were created as a lower cost alternative to AGMs in applications with more demanding duty cycles that call for a more robust battery, like engines with stop/start. They began in, and are more common in other markets, like Europe. Lower cost to placate the OEMs, not the vehicle owner.

Substitution of an EFB with a regular flooded battery will place demands on the latter it wasn't designed for. The "E" stands for Enhanced.

Substitution of an EFB with an AGM is fine, and makes more economic sense in a market like the U.S. where EFBs don't have the replacement market share that regular flooded and AGM batteries do.

As a result, the price difference between seeking out an EFB specifically, or just choosing from the plethora of AGM options can make it an easy choice to opt for latter, without even factoring their more widespread availability, and the impact that has on convenience.

When Walmart, Costco, Sam's, and the like start stocking EFBs, you'll know they've "arrived" and move enough units to make it worthwhile for those retailers to devote shelf space to them.
 
Had AGM batteries as stock on all vehicles and motorcycles I have owned in last 20 years. The exception being my sailboat that came with dual purpose marine batteries. My experience has been positive with the occasional top-off charge when not driven for a few days. My chargers have a specific charging algorithm for AGM vs regular flooded that seems to have worked well. Currently on the original Varta AGM on my 2016 Beemer so anticipating will replace soon, sourcing from Walmart (good experience so far) or Costco at same price. Will DIY so registering and reprogramming as required will be fun! Be warned, not a step to be omitted if you expect longevity for your newly installed battery, as need to tell the vehicle a "new" battery has been installed and new specs as appropriate.
 
My beaters call for FLA's, and that's what I put in them. Tried an AGM once, and it failed on me in 2 years. Must have something to do with the charging set up in the vehicles.
 
That's insane. I don't blame you for not changing it on you're own. I'm keeping my old beaters running as long as possible. The only thing you have to fix is the clock on the dash, sometimes the pre-sets on the radio. Too much tech for me. That's ridiculous.
 
paulo57509 said:
Yesterday afternoon, after listening to the radio for ~10 minutes (in accessory mode), the starter in the Highlander decided just decided to do the click-click. The engine started right up after connecting jumper cables.

This morning, I tested the battery/starting/charging systems with a Foxwell BT-705 and everything checked out OK; it did read, "Charge the battery;" 12.7 Volts. Also, the vehicle started without issue.

I think the battery is the original that was installed at assembly (6/2021; Toyota P/N 380LN3-ISS); battery is +4 years old. This battery is an EFB. I'm thinking an AGM would be a worthwhile upgrade?

View attachment 304652
Next to the (+) terminal - Is that a date code?

Note: Visually, I gave the battery connections a pass. I didn't want to deal with having to go thru the re-initialization steps.
Click to expand...
With today's vehicles having multiple computers and modules all depending on voltage and able to communicate due to that voltage do not venture away from what the original equipment manufacturer recommends for a battery. Use what the manufacturer calls for. It will save lots of time and trouble in the future. A 4 year old battery is getting up there in age. Replace with same group number and style that OEM recommends. Especially since alternators only charge as needed these days. And you have battery monitoring systems built into most modern vehicles.
 
Tracy Toyota tested the battery and it failed their testing procedure, so it got replaced with same.

Now the fun part. During the 50k mile inspection/service, they found the outboard boot on the L/F drive axle was torn and leaking. Both the service advisor and I assumed that the vehicle was only covered by the standard 3-year, 36k mile warranty, which was long expired. Estimate was $996 for this repair.

When I purchased the HL (used) in Nov. 2023, I purchased a 3rd party extended warranty which covers the power train until 2031 or 140k, whichever, blah, blah. So, reviewing the terms, I had to obtain prior approval for any repairs.

In the middle of (playing dumb) making calls to Modesto Toyota (where I had purchased the vehicle) for help on how to proceed, with a claim, Tracy Toyota calls and the advisor tells me he ran the VIN and found that the vehicle was originally sold with the 5-year, 60k mile power train warranty. I'm covered.

They ordered the boot kit and lock nut, and scheduled the repairs to be made when the parts arrived (7AM next day). Advisor said it should be ready to pick up around 11:30AM.

Next day, I get a call at 11:45AM telling me I can pick it up anytime.

Before I scheduled the appointment, I figured the whole sha-bang-a-bang would be around $1100; it came out to $1214.99. Just validates why I normally DIY.

All in all, I was surprised at how helpful and friendly the back end of this dealership was. I had never had the experience of dealing with a dealership service department as an vehicle owner. No BS, no harsh upselling, etc. If I didn't want a service item performed, I didn't get the lecture. I'm sure the experince is different on the sales floor, but who knows?

BITOG importance:
  1. P/N 00279-0W201 0W-20 Bulk Oil = $7.75/qt = $46.50 for 6 qts.
  2. P/N 04152-YZZA1 Replaceable Element = $6.29
  3. P/N 90430-12031 Gasket = $3.00 :oops:
  4. Hazardous Waste Fee = $3.00
BTW, Tracy Toyota is owned by Ronnie Lott and Keena Turner.
 
paulo57509 said:
Tracy Toyota tested the battery and it failed their testing procedure, so it got replaced with same.

Now the fun part. During the 50k mile inspection/service, they found the outboard boot on the L/F drive axle was torn and leaking. Both the service advisor and I assumed that the vehicle was only covered by the standard 3-year, 36k mile warranty, which was long expired. Estimate was $996 for this repair.

When I purchased the HL (used) in Nov. 2023, I purchased a 3rd party extended warranty which covers the power train until 2031 or 140k, whichever, blah, blah. So, reviewing the terms, I had to obtain prior approval for any repairs.

In the middle of (playing dumb) making calls to Modesto Toyota (where I had purchased the vehicle) for help on how to proceed, with a claim, Tracy Toyota calls and the advisor tells me he ran the VIN and found that the vehicle was originally sold with the 5-year, 60k mile power train warranty. I'm covered.

They ordered the boot kit and lock nut, and scheduled the repairs to be made when the parts arrived (7AM next day). Advisor said it should be ready to pick up around 11:30AM.

Next day, I get a call at 11:45AM telling me I can pick it up anytime.

Before I scheduled the appointment, I figured the whole sha-bang-a-bang would be around $1100; it came out to $1214.99. Just validates why I normally DIY.

All in all, I was surprised at how helpful and friendly the back end of this dealership was. I had never had the experience of dealing with a dealership service department as an vehicle owner. No BS, no harsh upselling, etc. If I didn't want a service item performed, I didn't get the lecture. I'm sure the experince is different on the sales floor, but who knows?

BITOG importance:
  1. P/N 00279-0W201 0W-20 Bulk Oil = $7.75/qt = $46.50 for 6 qts.
  2. P/N 04152-YZZA1 Replaceable Element = $6.29
  3. P/N 90430-12031 Gasket = $3.00 :oops:
  4. Hazardous Waste Fee = $3.00
BTW, Tracy Toyota is owned by Ronnie Lott and Keena Turner.
Click to expand...
Dealership experiences are highly variable...even amongst Toyota. The best in my area is Titus Will Toyota in Tacoma, WA. Its a good hour drive from me, passing four other dealerships on the way, but they treat me fairly, so they have earned my loyalty. They are not perfect, but will always make things right if they mess up. I have some higher end cars, and the experience doesn't necessarily improve with the cost of the vehicle...
 
Charge it to 75 % or greater.

It took a while for me to figure it out, but based on observations over years:

Flooded leas acid batteries when charged to at least 75 % and at at least 70 degree F temp of battery measured with an IR temperature meter aimed at and close to the battery, when new will show a CCA of 1.3333 X rated CCA, with these modern testers.

The CCA falls off with age. If charged to at least 75 % and at least 70 degree F and it shows less than 1.1 X rated CCA its stil good. If less than 1.1 X rated CCA replace it.

Also, these modern testers must be connected to the terminals at the battery, or on the battery post. If at the battery terminals, they must be clean and snug to get a good reading.

Some vehicles have jump post remote from the battery. Theres way too much wire between the battery and those post to get an accurate battery reading there.

-------------------

OP, if you had the ignition also on when listening to that radio, then that's a lot more current draw. That turns on engine and body computer, and wakes up all sensors.
 
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