Dex VI is thin and in an older transmission like yours stay with the Mercon V. Dex VI is really for 2006+ transmissions and I have seen too many issues when used in the older high miles units. Tne Mercon won't let you down. No need for in-line filters either.
Time for a tranny fluid change?
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Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is thin and in an older transmission like yours stay with the Mercon V.
Yep, Merc V/ Dex III 25% higher viscosity across the board. Why/how is this necessarily a good thing in a healthy trans? GM says Dex VI is backwards compatible all the way to Dex II. Why would they say that?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is really for 2006+ transmissions and I have seen too many issues when used in the older high miles units.
What types of issues? How resolved by more viscous fluid?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for in-line filters either.
Why would you say that? As a hydraulics guy, I know well what happens to valves when they become contaminated. Even a small amount of contamination can cause an otherwise delightful valve (and the machine it runs) to have poor behaviour and performance, and ultimately become a sticky leaker. Ask me how.
Bottom line: With Amsoil ATL (Dex VI spec) in my 94 4T60E, performance and comfort is as good or better than it ever was with a thicker Dex III/ Merc V, syn or otherwise. And, shifts are noticably more consistant across all operating temps.
Dex VI is thin and in an older transmission like yours stay with the Mercon V.
Yep, Merc V/ Dex III 25% higher viscosity across the board. Why/how is this necessarily a good thing in a healthy trans? GM says Dex VI is backwards compatible all the way to Dex II. Why would they say that?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is really for 2006+ transmissions and I have seen too many issues when used in the older high miles units.
What types of issues? How resolved by more viscous fluid?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for in-line filters either.
Why would you say that? As a hydraulics guy, I know well what happens to valves when they become contaminated. Even a small amount of contamination can cause an otherwise delightful valve (and the machine it runs) to have poor behaviour and performance, and ultimately become a sticky leaker. Ask me how.
Bottom line: With Amsoil ATL (Dex VI spec) in my 94 4T60E, performance and comfort is as good or better than it ever was with a thicker Dex III/ Merc V, syn or otherwise. And, shifts are noticably more consistant across all operating temps.
Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is thin and in an older transmission like yours stay with the Mercon V.
Yep, Merc V/ Dex III 25% higher viscosity across the board. Why/how is this necessarily a good thing in a healthy trans? GM says Dex VI is backwards compatible all the way to Dex II. Why would they say that?
To keep people from getting confused and putting the wrong fluid in a 2006 + model. So they only have to stock one type of fluid.[/color]
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is really for 2006+ transmissions and I have seen too many issues when used in the older high miles units.
What types of issues? How resolved by more viscous fluid?
Do a search ; lots of stories where the Dex Vi had to come out of older units.,
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for in-line filters either.
Why would you say that? As a hydraulics guy, I know well what happens to valves when they become contaminated. Even a small amount of contamination can cause an otherwise delightful valve (and the machine it runs) to have poor behaviour and performance, and ultimately become a sticky leaker. Ask me how.
Magnet catches most of the bad stuff. OEM filters are desigend to let the fluid have a decent flow. Transmissions last a long time with a few fluid changes.
Bottom line: With Amsoil ATL (Dex VI spec) in my 94 4T60E, performance and comfort is as good or better than it ever was with a thicker Dex III/ Merc V, syn or otherwise. And, shifts are noticably more consistant across all operating temps.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is thin and in an older transmission like yours stay with the Mercon V.
Yep, Merc V/ Dex III 25% higher viscosity across the board. Why/how is this necessarily a good thing in a healthy trans? GM says Dex VI is backwards compatible all the way to Dex II. Why would they say that?
To keep people from getting confused and putting the wrong fluid in a 2006 + model. So they only have to stock one type of fluid.[/color]
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is really for 2006+ transmissions and I have seen too many issues when used in the older high miles units.
What types of issues? How resolved by more viscous fluid?
Do a search ; lots of stories where the Dex Vi had to come out of older units.,
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for in-line filters either.
Why would you say that? As a hydraulics guy, I know well what happens to valves when they become contaminated. Even a small amount of contamination can cause an otherwise delightful valve (and the machine it runs) to have poor behaviour and performance, and ultimately become a sticky leaker. Ask me how.
Magnet catches most of the bad stuff. OEM filters are desigend to let the fluid have a decent flow. Transmissions last a long time with a few fluid changes.
Bottom line: With Amsoil ATL (Dex VI spec) in my 94 4T60E, performance and comfort is as good or better than it ever was with a thicker Dex III/ Merc V, syn or otherwise. And, shifts are noticably more consistant across all operating temps.
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WHOAH! I almost missed your reply due to funky formatting, dude!
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Yep, Merc V/ Dex III 25% higher viscosity across the board. Why/how is this necessarily a good thing in a healthy trans? GM says Dex VI is backwards compatible all the way to Dex II. Why would they say that?
To keep people from getting confused and putting the wrong fluid in a 2006 + model. So they only have to stock one type of fluid.[/color]
Seriously, are you aware of how many RED ATF's there are? Color has nothing to do with it. And besides, colors are easy to come up with, if needed. We would all know about it.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is really for 2006+ transmissions and I have seen too many issues when used in the older high miles units.
Do a search ; lots of stories where the Dex Vi had to come out of older units.,
You said YOU have "seen too many issues". Pony up with said "issues". I will listen.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Magnet catches most of the bad stuff. OEM filters are desigend to let the fluid have a decent flow. Transmissions last a long time with a few fluid changes.
...and yet, many people on this forum report better shifting after installing Magnefine or other added filter. Yep, with a "control": same fluid in the trans before and after.
Many people on this forum also report very good results using Dex VI in AT's where Dex III was originally spec'd. Myself included.
Dude, if you are going to come on here and give strong opinions to people who are looking for good, reliable advice, make sure you are working from what you know.
Kaboomba
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Yep, Merc V/ Dex III 25% higher viscosity across the board. Why/how is this necessarily a good thing in a healthy trans? GM says Dex VI is backwards compatible all the way to Dex II. Why would they say that?
To keep people from getting confused and putting the wrong fluid in a 2006 + model. So they only have to stock one type of fluid.[/color]
Seriously, are you aware of how many RED ATF's there are? Color has nothing to do with it. And besides, colors are easy to come up with, if needed. We would all know about it.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Dex VI is really for 2006+ transmissions and I have seen too many issues when used in the older high miles units.
Do a search ; lots of stories where the Dex Vi had to come out of older units.,
You said YOU have "seen too many issues". Pony up with said "issues". I will listen.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Magnet catches most of the bad stuff. OEM filters are desigend to let the fluid have a decent flow. Transmissions last a long time with a few fluid changes.
...and yet, many people on this forum report better shifting after installing Magnefine or other added filter. Yep, with a "control": same fluid in the trans before and after.
Many people on this forum also report very good results using Dex VI in AT's where Dex III was originally spec'd. Myself included.
Dude, if you are going to come on here and give strong opinions to people who are looking for good, reliable advice, make sure you are working from what you know.
Kaboomba
Glad to hear the dex VI is working for you, for others it is not. Use the search and see where some older units had to have it drain out to work right. I would search for you but i don't have time. I see your new, so search after 2009 to find what you have missed on this topic.
AS for the Magnafine, no doubt they have notice better shifter after they installed the filter. Common response when you spend money and need to rationalize the purchase. Butt Dyno some call it. Transmission fluid does not need to be filtered down to 10 microns, although it does no harm. Any filter will be a restriction to the pressures in the transmission, and there can cause servos to hols with less force on bands and cause wear. I am guessing if you showed up at the dealer with such a filter and wanted to make a warranty claim it would be rejected.
AS for the Magnafine, no doubt they have notice better shifter after they installed the filter. Common response when you spend money and need to rationalize the purchase. Butt Dyno some call it. Transmission fluid does not need to be filtered down to 10 microns, although it does no harm. Any filter will be a restriction to the pressures in the transmission, and there can cause servos to hols with less force on bands and cause wear. I am guessing if you showed up at the dealer with such a filter and wanted to make a warranty claim it would be rejected.
Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Seriously, are you aware of how many RED ATF's there are? Color has nothing to do with it. And besides, colors are easy to come up with, if needed. We would all know about it.
Kaboomba
That was to be a font color. nothing to do with fluid color.
Seriously, are you aware of how many RED ATF's there are? Color has nothing to do with it. And besides, colors are easy to come up with, if needed. We would all know about it.
Kaboomba
That was to be a font color. nothing to do with fluid color.
My butt dyno must be pretty darned sensitive to notice a change in shift quality after installing Dex-VI, then a Magnefine, into my car's 4T65. And again in my fiancee's Honda after draining/filling the pan with Z1...
At 145k, it's time to change the ATF and filter. It really doesn't matter with what, as long as it's changed.
At 145k, it's time to change the ATF and filter. It really doesn't matter with what, as long as it's changed.
Notice a shift change after a fluid change absolutely, but after a magnafine Install; Think about it for a minute...
Blue, please see my thread about the Magnefine so we don't pollute this thread.
Pan drop, filter change, and refill with ATF.
Pan drop, filter change, and refill with ATF.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Use the search and see where some older units had to have it drain out to work right.
In deference to your longevity here, I searched. I did not find any cases where flushing with new Dex VI caused problems that did not exist before, or where draining the Dex VI and refilling with a thicker Dex/Merc fluid caused problems to go away. The closest it gets is an old high-mileage Cadillac that had transmission problems already.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
AS for the Magnafine, no doubt they have notice better shifter after they installed the filter. Common response when you spend money and need to rationalize the purchase. Butt Dyno some call it.
Since I replaced my Dex III with Dex VI at the same time as adding a Magnefine, I cannot speak to the direct effects of the Magnefine alone. But sciphi has done this, and it would be wise not to dismiss his observations.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Transmission fluid does not need to be filtered down to 10 microns, although it does no harm. Any filter will be a restriction to the pressures in the transmission, and there can cause servos to hols with less force on bands and cause wear. I am guessing if you showed up at the dealer with such a filter and wanted to make a warranty claim it would be rejected.
1. Magnefine filters to ~30 micron
2. The filter media in a Magnefine is so large that there is virtually no restriction to flow. This has been shown by OEMs. You can find the details in several posts on this forum.
3. In most transmissions, the Magnefine is mounted inline with a cooler, which is basically on its own "kidney loop", and hence will not have a major influence on pressures in the control circuit the way that the in-pan filter does.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I am guessing if you showed up at the dealer with such a filter and wanted to make a warranty claim it would be rejected.
Thankfully, your guess is unfounded: Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, aftermarket equipment, which improves performance, does not void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly and conspicuously states that aftermarket equipment voids the warranty.
Use the search and see where some older units had to have it drain out to work right.
In deference to your longevity here, I searched. I did not find any cases where flushing with new Dex VI caused problems that did not exist before, or where draining the Dex VI and refilling with a thicker Dex/Merc fluid caused problems to go away. The closest it gets is an old high-mileage Cadillac that had transmission problems already.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
AS for the Magnafine, no doubt they have notice better shifter after they installed the filter. Common response when you spend money and need to rationalize the purchase. Butt Dyno some call it.
Since I replaced my Dex III with Dex VI at the same time as adding a Magnefine, I cannot speak to the direct effects of the Magnefine alone. But sciphi has done this, and it would be wise not to dismiss his observations.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Transmission fluid does not need to be filtered down to 10 microns, although it does no harm. Any filter will be a restriction to the pressures in the transmission, and there can cause servos to hols with less force on bands and cause wear. I am guessing if you showed up at the dealer with such a filter and wanted to make a warranty claim it would be rejected.
1. Magnefine filters to ~30 micron
2. The filter media in a Magnefine is so large that there is virtually no restriction to flow. This has been shown by OEMs. You can find the details in several posts on this forum.
3. In most transmissions, the Magnefine is mounted inline with a cooler, which is basically on its own "kidney loop", and hence will not have a major influence on pressures in the control circuit the way that the in-pan filter does.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I am guessing if you showed up at the dealer with such a filter and wanted to make a warranty claim it would be rejected.
Thankfully, your guess is unfounded: Magnuson-Moss Warranty - Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, aftermarket equipment, which improves performance, does not void a vehicle manufacturer's original warranty, unless the warranty clearly and conspicuously states that aftermarket equipment voids the warranty.
Like on the Nissan "Z" cars. Yup.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Adding to this, if aftermarket filters are such evil, then why do some transmission re-builders SUPPLY them to be plumbed inline with the cooler?
After a transmission failure the cooler can trap debris. The filter should be installed downstream from the cooler to catch any debris that would otherwise go into a clean rebuilt transmission.
Adding to this, if aftermarket filters are such evil, then why do some transmission re-builders SUPPLY them to be plumbed inline with the cooler?
After a transmission failure the cooler can trap debris. The filter should be installed downstream from the cooler to catch any debris that would otherwise go into a clean rebuilt transmission.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
AS for the Magnafine,...Transmission fluid does not need to be filtered down to 10 microns, although it does no harm. Any filter will be a restriction to the pressures in the transmission, and there can cause servos to hols with less force on bands and cause wear.
Any and every hydraulic system will live longer with clean fluid. Fluid remains clean with filtration. Who does not want filtration on a hydraulic system?...those selling repairs or remanufactured units or new cars.
The cooling system in an automatic transmission has the fluid pumped out of the transmission, to the cooler, and back to the transmission where it falls into the sump. No pressure or servo concerns.
AS for the Magnafine,...Transmission fluid does not need to be filtered down to 10 microns, although it does no harm. Any filter will be a restriction to the pressures in the transmission, and there can cause servos to hols with less force on bands and cause wear.
Any and every hydraulic system will live longer with clean fluid. Fluid remains clean with filtration. Who does not want filtration on a hydraulic system?...those selling repairs or remanufactured units or new cars.
The cooling system in an automatic transmission has the fluid pumped out of the transmission, to the cooler, and back to the transmission where it falls into the sump. No pressure or servo concerns.
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Adding to this, if aftermarket filters are such evil, then why do some transmission re-builders SUPPLY them to be plumbed inline with the cooler?
After a transmission failure the cooler can trap debris. The filter should be installed downstream from the cooler to catch any debris that would otherwise go into a clean rebuilt transmission.
The rebuilders we deal with also supply a can of flush for the cooler and lines. To be honest just 1 (of the two) rebuilders we use actually supply them.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Adding to this, if aftermarket filters are such evil, then why do some transmission re-builders SUPPLY them to be plumbed inline with the cooler?
After a transmission failure the cooler can trap debris. The filter should be installed downstream from the cooler to catch any debris that would otherwise go into a clean rebuilt transmission.
The rebuilders we deal with also supply a can of flush for the cooler and lines. To be honest just 1 (of the two) rebuilders we use actually supply them.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Good luck with that!!! If your transmission [censored] the bed due to a flush, there's not a snowball's chance anyone will stand behind it. You see, with the miles that are on it, they'll blame on something, anything else to keep the blame and resulting liability off of them.
I don't care who does it, flushing a transmission with a machine is a bad deal. It takes any contaminates and forces them through the transmission at high pressure. before it exits to the machine. Another negative is that nobody will ever change the filter. So if it's plugged then your problem still exists. Bottom line, drop the pan, clean everything up and replace the filter. If you want to go the extra mile, add several quarts of ATF, then disconnect the return line (from the cooler), start the engine and let it pump the old dirty ATF out until it runs bright red.
BTW, "certified" is not a guarantee that you'll get a quality job. It does up the chances, but remember this... First and foremost, they are human and can make mistakes. Second, they are oftentimes on commission- and that puts pressure on them to perform at a high rate to make money.. Doing that leads to cutting corners. This I have seen with my own eyes. When corners are cut you will suffer, not them and rarely is it the other way around.
Excuse me but do you know how a transmission machine works? It uses the transmissions own pump at what pressure it normally runs at to pump (hopefully) fresh oil from the pan through the transmission and out one of the two lines going to the cooler. The only thing a transmission flush machine does is to keep the pan re-supplied with fresh ATF.
Good luck with that!!! If your transmission [censored] the bed due to a flush, there's not a snowball's chance anyone will stand behind it. You see, with the miles that are on it, they'll blame on something, anything else to keep the blame and resulting liability off of them.
I don't care who does it, flushing a transmission with a machine is a bad deal. It takes any contaminates and forces them through the transmission at high pressure. before it exits to the machine. Another negative is that nobody will ever change the filter. So if it's plugged then your problem still exists. Bottom line, drop the pan, clean everything up and replace the filter. If you want to go the extra mile, add several quarts of ATF, then disconnect the return line (from the cooler), start the engine and let it pump the old dirty ATF out until it runs bright red.
BTW, "certified" is not a guarantee that you'll get a quality job. It does up the chances, but remember this... First and foremost, they are human and can make mistakes. Second, they are oftentimes on commission- and that puts pressure on them to perform at a high rate to make money.. Doing that leads to cutting corners. This I have seen with my own eyes. When corners are cut you will suffer, not them and rarely is it the other way around.
Excuse me but do you know how a transmission machine works? It uses the transmissions own pump at what pressure it normally runs at to pump (hopefully) fresh oil from the pan through the transmission and out one of the two lines going to the cooler. The only thing a transmission flush machine does is to keep the pan re-supplied with fresh ATF.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Good luck with that!!! If your transmission [censored] the bed due to a flush, there's not a snowball's chance anyone will stand behind it. You see, with the miles that are on it, they'll blame on something, anything else to keep the blame and resulting liability off of them.
I don't care who does it, flushing a transmission with a machine is a bad deal. It takes any contaminates and forces them through the transmission at high pressure. before it exits to the machine. Another negative is that nobody will ever change the filter. So if it's plugged then your problem still exists. Bottom line, drop the pan, clean everything up and replace the filter. If you want to go the extra mile, add several quarts of ATF, then disconnect the return line (from the cooler), start the engine and let it pump the old dirty ATF out until it runs bright red.
BTW, "certified" is not a guarantee that you'll get a quality job. It does up the chances, but remember this... First and foremost, they are human and can make mistakes. Second, they are oftentimes on commission- and that puts pressure on them to perform at a high rate to make money.. Doing that leads to cutting corners. This I have seen with my own eyes. When corners are cut you will suffer, not them and rarely is it the other way around.
Excuse me but do you know how a transmission machine works? It uses the transmissions own pump at what pressure it normally runs at to pump (hopefully) fresh oil from the pan through the transmission and out one of the two lines going to the cooler. The only thing a transmission flush machine does is to keep the pan re-supplied with fresh ATF.
You're right. I was in the wrong with that post. In my defense, I came to that (incorrect) understanding due to my boss's input. He's a big opponent to flushing and I think that he was misinformed. Thanks to BITOG and it's many members, I've come to better understand several things, this is just one of them.
I do however still feel that a flush alone is not the correct way to service the transmission. My new opinion is that a filter service, followed by a fluid exchange is really the way to go. Because even though you drop the pan, there is still a significant amount of old fluid left in the transmission/converter and exchanging the fluid alone won't deal with a (potentially) plugged filter.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Good luck with that!!! If your transmission [censored] the bed due to a flush, there's not a snowball's chance anyone will stand behind it. You see, with the miles that are on it, they'll blame on something, anything else to keep the blame and resulting liability off of them.
I don't care who does it, flushing a transmission with a machine is a bad deal. It takes any contaminates and forces them through the transmission at high pressure. before it exits to the machine. Another negative is that nobody will ever change the filter. So if it's plugged then your problem still exists. Bottom line, drop the pan, clean everything up and replace the filter. If you want to go the extra mile, add several quarts of ATF, then disconnect the return line (from the cooler), start the engine and let it pump the old dirty ATF out until it runs bright red.
BTW, "certified" is not a guarantee that you'll get a quality job. It does up the chances, but remember this... First and foremost, they are human and can make mistakes. Second, they are oftentimes on commission- and that puts pressure on them to perform at a high rate to make money.. Doing that leads to cutting corners. This I have seen with my own eyes. When corners are cut you will suffer, not them and rarely is it the other way around.
Excuse me but do you know how a transmission machine works? It uses the transmissions own pump at what pressure it normally runs at to pump (hopefully) fresh oil from the pan through the transmission and out one of the two lines going to the cooler. The only thing a transmission flush machine does is to keep the pan re-supplied with fresh ATF.
You're right. I was in the wrong with that post. In my defense, I came to that (incorrect) understanding due to my boss's input. He's a big opponent to flushing and I think that he was misinformed. Thanks to BITOG and it's many members, I've come to better understand several things, this is just one of them.
I do however still feel that a flush alone is not the correct way to service the transmission. My new opinion is that a filter service, followed by a fluid exchange is really the way to go. Because even though you drop the pan, there is still a significant amount of old fluid left in the transmission/converter and exchanging the fluid alone won't deal with a (potentially) plugged filter.
Go to NAPA and get the Lubegard red or universal additive, the only transmission additive recommended by the OEMs. Its the best for new and old transmissions, go to lubegard.com when u can and check it out.
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