Thinking about TGMO 0w20 for winter....

[650NutKase]

Thinking about changing from Kendall synthetic blend 5w-20 to the TGMO 0w20 synthetic for the winter months. I live in west TX and should be pretty mild through Feb. Temperatures maybe dipping below 20* occasionally at night. The thing is I want the best start up protection. Also I am concerned about the switch to full synthetic then going back to a blend after winter....Should I worry about that? Or should I just stay Kendall 5w20 blend for the winter?

 

[racer12306]

I doubt it will really make a difference at those temps. But a 0w would be the way to go for shooting for the best start up flow.

No concerns switching between synthetic and blend or even conventional if you choose.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: racer12306
I doubt it will really make a difference at those temps.

The main advantage of TGMO 0W-20 (and other ultra high VI 0W-20s) is that it is much lighter on start-up even at room temperature and of course more so at temp's down around the freezing point vs a 5W-20.

There is no problem switching back to Kendall 5W-20 for the summer if you want, or instead just top up TGMO with a pint or so of M1 0W-40. This will give you even more high temp' protection while still being lighter on start-up than Kendall.

 

[650NutKase]

I see you mentioned better high temp protection. Would TGMO 0w20 be a good all year oil? It gets HOT here...over 100 in the summer. Would this be too light? The Kendall seems to be holding up ok.

 

[Brule]

Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
The thing is I want the best start up protection.


Then go for a group IV synthetic like Amsoil Signature Series 0w20 or, even better, a group V like Red Line 0w20.

If cost is an issue then go with Kendall 0w20 [if you can find it.]

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
The thing is I want the best start up protection.


Then go for a group IV synthetic like Amsoil Signature Series 0w20 or, even better, a group V like Red Line 0w20.

Really, and how is a much heavier than necessary PAO based oil going to provide greater start-up protection? It won't, in fact it will do the opposite.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Unless the oil has big moly you most likely aren't going to get better startup "protection" from a synthetic unless your looking at a grpV or a ILSAC GF5 oil with FAE or similar. All differening oil blends act and lubricate specific parts differently.
Other than metallurgy and design - the longevity of your engine will be determined by the samples tol stack. If you have misaligned main web (running .0008+/- dia clear) 220w20 or 0w16 that thing is taking a beating.

Unless you are overloading the cooling system(s) which is unlikely, ambient temp doesn't figure into oil grade selection on water cooled "up to temp" passenger car engines.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm still looking in the UOA section for indisputable proof of this better start up protection and less wear offered by TGMO 0W20. I saw M1 0W20 and TGMO 0W20 side by side and the reports were nearly identical. I think we tend to over think this a bit.

 

[lubedude13]

Use 0w20 year round!!! Usually it will have better base stocks than a 5w20

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Really, and how is a much heavier than necessary PAO based oil going to provide greater start-up protection? It won't, in fact it will do the opposite.


How so ?

the thicker oil has a higher hydrodynamic film thickness...how can it offer less protection, when "start-up wear" is actually the period during engine operation when it is warming, running, and has oil pressure (see Sequence IV for details).

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
The thing is I want the best start up protection.


Then go for a group IV synthetic like Amsoil Signature Series 0w20 or, even better, a group V like Red Line 0w20.

Really, and how is a much heavier than necessary PAO based oil going to provide greater start-up protection? It won't, in fact it will do the opposite.



This statement is as ridiculous as the one it was responding to. TGMO will NOT provide increased protection against start-up wear compared to other 0W20 offerings, regardless of composition.

Will TGMO offer less parasitic drag? Sure...
Will it help fuel economy minutely (especially during warm-up)? Absolutely...
Will it protect better and make an engine last longer? Not one bit.

And if you still think it will, prove it. The other 0W20 oils, albeit a bit more viscous, will flow to every place in the engine where they need to be, and will protect every bit as well as the 0W20 TGMO. And "TGMO is so many % lighter" is NOT proof that it protects better, only proof that for a given rpm (oil flow rate) there will be less back pressure during pumping.

To the original poster, you can easily use any 0W20 or 5W20 oil for your winter temperatures, and be very well protected, TGMO included.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm still looking in the UOA section for indisputable proof of this better start up protection and less wear offered by TGMO 0W20. I saw M1 0W20 and TGMO 0W20 side by side and the reports were nearly identical. I think we tend to over think this a bit.


No, a lot of facts are made up on this board...

start-up wear happens while the engine is running, and with oil pressure...the oil is there...it's lubricating...and "overly heavy" 0W-20s are providing greater film thicknesses anyway. It happens in the period that the engine oil is thinning, and the additives haven't kicked in yet.

(As was conveyed to me over dinner by a Castrol lubricant engineer, who was working on the UMA/Magnatec esters).

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
The thing is I want the best start up protection.


Then go for a group IV synthetic like Amsoil Signature Series 0w20 or, even better, a group V like Red Line 0w20.

Really, and how is a much heavier than necessary PAO based oil going to provide greater start-up protection? It won't, in fact it will do the opposite.



This statement is as ridiculous as the one it was responding to. TGMO will NOT provide increased protection against start-up wear compared to other 0W20 offerings, regardless of composition.

Will TGMO offer less parasitic drag? Sure...
Will it help fuel economy minutely (especially during warm-up)? Absolutely...
Will it protect better and make an engine last longer? Not one bit.

And if you still think it will, prove it. The other 0W20 oils, albeit a bit more viscous, will flow to every place in the engine where they need to be, and will protect every bit as well as the 0W20 TGMO. And "TGMO is so many % lighter" is NOT proof that it protects better, only proof that for a given rpm (oil flow rate) there will be less back pressure during pumping.

To the original poster, you can easily use any 0W20 or 5W20 oil for your winter temperatures, and be very well protected, TGMO included.

Now you're being ridiculous.
TGMO does claim to provide lower engine wear on start-up and theoretically their more optimized viscosity and above average additized oil will.

 

[Blue_Angel]

Doesn't the oil being thinner mean it pumps to all engine parts sooner during start-up? That's where I thought the majority of cold start protection came in... less engine revolutions without oil pressure in the bearings with thinner oil vs more revolutions with thicker oil. ???

Lifters seem to pump up much quicker after a cold start with thinner oil.

In case it's not clear, I'm asking, not telling. Trying to learn.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Now you're being ridiculous.
TGMO does claim to provide lower engine wear on start-up and theoretically their more optimized viscosity and above average additized oil will.




Call me what you want, but your statement that TGMO protects better during start-up than Amsoil or Redline 0W20 is nothing but ridiculous. Prove it.

And whatever TGMO claims on the bottle or in Toyota advertising material is just that... Marketing.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Blue_Angel
Doesn't the oil being thinner mean it pumps to all engine parts sooner during start-up? That's where I thought the majority of cold start protection came in... less engine revolutions without oil pressure in the bearings with thinner oil vs more revolutions with thicker oil. ???

Lifters seem to pump up much quicker after a cold start with thinner oil.

In case it's not clear, I'm asking, not telling. Trying to learn.



There have been tests performed by many major car and oil companies with many different oils, ranging from 20 grades right up to HDEO 15W40 grades for oil pumpability during cold weather and the time it takes the oil to reach the various places that it needs to be during start-up.

There was a negligible difference between 20 and 30 grades, and only very thick oils with poor winter performance (i.e. 15W40) took any appreciable time to reach parts of the engine. I used to know an engineer that worked for Cummins diesel doing these types of tests all the time. He used to share data with me for personal interest.

With your pushrod engine, lifters always sound quieter on thinner oil because they pump up and fill faster. But it's not because the thicker oil isn't there to protect them, it's just that the more viscous oil needs more time to fully enter the hydraulic cavity in the lifter. It's a very small orifice in there.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Now you're being ridiculous.
TGMO does claim to provide lower engine wear on start-up and theoretically their more optimized viscosity and above average additized oil will.



What does 'optimized' mean in this instance; is it 'wear protection' that is optimized or something else?

Exclusive of the one condition of (the potential for) oil starvation, in what other manner can higher viscosity jeopardize lubrication?

 

[KrisZ]

The whole notion of "start up wear" is ridiculous and is nothing but marketing ploy to scare people into buying premium oils.
How many cars are scrapped in northern Canada and Alaska due to worn out engines because the oil did not provide start up wear protection? I would wager that the number is very close to zero and most are scrapped due to rust, accidents or plain old lack of maintenance.

 

[Brent_G]

Run what is available and don't worry. Your engine will not care or notice the difference at that temp or even lower, you could easily run that oil into the -20F with no worries.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Now you're being ridiculous.
TGMO does claim to provide lower engine wear on start-up and theoretically their more optimized viscosity and above average additized oil will.




Call me what you want, but your statement that TGMO protects better during start-up than Amsoil or Redline 0W20 is nothing but ridiculous. Prove it.

And whatever TGMO claims on the bottle or in Toyota advertising material is just that... Marketing.

That's not exactly what I said is it?
It was a rebuttal to the claim that a heavier PAO based oil would somehow maximize start-up protection and of course it won't.