Thermostats

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I have noticed this too.
The original brake pads on our Aerostar lasted 72K.
It is now on its third set of repalcement pads at 158K.
I tried to buy OEM level pads, not the cheap stuff.
What is up with this?
 
Something I've wondered myself. Even the very best replacement pads available are no match to the OEM pads the car rolled off the line with.
 
Originally Posted By: defektes
im still on 125k on my original set of brakes rofl

Dang! What do you do use the transmission, do you have a jake brake?
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I can't keep a set of Brakes on a car for more than 50,000 miles.
Maybe I need to re-examine my driving practices.
 
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Originally Posted By: defektes
im still on 125k on my original set of brakes rofl


Nice job! Replace them and my bet is cut the life in the replacement pads by half or more!
 
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Something I've wondered myself. Even the very best replacement pads available are no match to the OEM pads the car rolled off the line with.


Are you guys replacing the rotors too, with a quality rotor? I have not noticed this phenomenom of replacement brakes not lasting as long as the originals. I replace the rotor and use high level like advanced technology Raybestos matched rotors and pads.

Other than that maybe check for a caliper piston sticking or the slides and lug nut torque is at specs. I also replace the pad slide clips. They usually come with the better pads.
 
I've replaced calipers, rotors, and re-worked the entire front brake system. From my experiences nothing lasted as long as the brakes the car rolled off the line with.

Now my last new car was bought in 2008 so I can't speak for the newer components used. I have a feeling they are not going to be up to the same standards used years ago. Going back to the 1980's and prior any replacement brakes came up way short in life compared to what the car rolled off the line with.
 
All I know is I've gotten the same life or more as originals with Raybestos pads and rotors. I'm not sure what brand and type of pads and rotors you were using. If you really think the originals are longer lasting, you can get them at the dealer. They normally sell the same pad and rotor that the car got going down the assembly line. They might charge $300 or so for them though.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Also some OEM have a little jiggle valve in the thermostat base that the aftermarket replacement usually won't have. I forget what it's function is but I think it's to bleed off steam before the T-stat is in the opening phase.


That little valve serves the same function as the holes in some T stats. It's too keep air from being trapped in the system since the tstat is cold and closed when you drain & refill coolant. It's still good to burp the system over a drive cycle or two but the hole in the tstat just lets the air in the system escape as you fill it up.
 
Originally Posted By: AdRock
mechanicx said:
Also some OEM have a little jiggle valve in the thermostat base that the aftermarket replacement usually won't have. I forget what it's function is but I think it's to bleed off steam before the T-stat is in the opening phase.


That little valve serves the same function as the holes in some T stats. It's too keep air from being trapped in the system since the tstat is cold and closed when you drain & refill coolant. It's still good to burp the system over a drive cycle or two




Yeah I can see how it could serve that function depending on the waterpump bypass line layout and if it has a bleeder valve or not. I think some thermostate housing had an orifice built into them.Of course you should always running the engine hot till the t-stat opens to get all the air out when filling them. I still think the valve might bleed off steam posckets . Bottom line is though if your originally have a jiggle valve opr holes and the replacement didn't, that isn't so good. sorry about the typos but this site is hanging up and I don't want to waste more time correcting them lol.
 
I'm wondering if I could drill a tiny pilot hole in my stant t-stat and see if I could getaway with that?
I dunno how I'd make a jiggler tho.. would I really need one?

it shouldn't hurt anything, but I imagine it'd take a bit longer to warm up, but it'd be a great trade vs. having the air purged faster??
 
If your application doesn't have a jiggle valve then it probably doesn't need it. It might have a small thermostat bypass built into the housing, or perhaps an external water pump bypass that doesn't need one or maybe has a bleeder valve. What is your application?
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
All I know is I've gotten the same life or more as originals with Raybestos pads and rotors. I'm not sure what brand and type of pads and rotors you were using. If you really think the originals are longer lasting, you can get them at the dealer. They normally sell the same pad and rotor that the car got going down the assembly line. They might charge $300 or so for them though.


Funny you mention Raybestos. I had a friend who was a manager at a small mom and pop auto parts store and they sold Raybestos, I've used them and they lasted no longer than Bendix Premium or any of the other top of the line brand. Not sure how old you are or how many brake jobs you've done, but in 35+ years my experience is "the original pads and shoes the car rolled off the line with lasted the longest". Note the words rolled off the line with, I'm not even sure you can get them from the dealer.

I didn't say anything about buying brakes at a dealership, they'd charge an arm and a leg and probably carry Bendix Premium. That is what the local Ford guy tried giving me, and re-lined shoes for the rear. I mentioned Thermostats from the dealership were better than something off the shelf from AAP, or another parts store in my Ford applications. Glad you had success, in all the new cars I've owned that has been my experience, maybe now they use the same junk available in parts stores.

As a side note, I had a leaking slave cylinder while a Ford was under warranty and it ruined the clutch. Ford tried putting a Ford remaunfactured Clutch in it, no cigar! It took a little heated discussion, and some wheeling and dealing and I had them put a new CF clutch in, in that case it was better than the Ford part.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
mechanicx said:
Funny you mention Raybestos. I had a friend who was a manager at a small mom and pop auto parts store and they sold Raybestos, I've used them and they lasted no longer than Bendix Premium or any of the other top of the line brand. Not sure how old you are or how many brake jobs you've done, but in 35+ years my experience is "the original pads and shoes the car rolled off the line with lasted the longest". Note the words rolled off the line with, I'm not even sure you can get them from the dealer.


Raybestos makes different lines of pads and rotors some made in the USA or Canada, entry level, Professional grade, Advanced Technology, organic, semi-metallic, ceramic, etc, as I'm sure Bendix and others do as well. What you're saying that OE pads last significantly longer than any replacement pad for the application, defies science and good sense, and my experience. I've done a fair amount of brake jobs on various cars and I'm not a spring chicken. I don't really know what to say other than maybe you are not getting quality pads with rotors and making sure everything is in spec. And you can usually or at least sometimes get the exact pads and rotors from the dealer that the car rolled down the assembly line for GM and most others at least. Although they may now carry two lines of parts. What do you think OE replacement parts are? They're generally an exact copy of what the car rolled down the line with. The pads aren't too unreasonably priced but the OE rotors can be outrageous. But they're generally exactly same as what the car rolled down the assembly line with. I can see that OEs want to make sure the pads make it through the warranty, but so do service pad makers. What I'm telling you is what I believe is true and have seen. No need to baselessly question my experience.

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I didn't say anything about buying brakes at a dealership, they'd charge an arm and a leg and probably carry Bendix Premium. That is what the local Ford guy tried giving me, and re-lined shoes for the rear. I mentioned Thermostats from the dealership were better than something off the shelf from AAP, or another parts store in my Ford applications. Glad you had success, in all the new cars I've owned that has been my experience, maybe now they use the same junk available in parts stores.


I mentioned dealer pads because you kept insisting the originals last longer, and so you can get the originals there usually. True, now they are carrying two lines at some dealers, but some dealer carry the originals too. For example GM has the GM line and the ACDELCO line that appear to be raybestos or Bendix. I guess it depends on the dealer and the automaker. I don't really believe the other non-OE line of replacements have a different life anyway.


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As a side note, I had a leaking slave cylinder while a Ford was under warranty and it ruined the clutch. Ford tried putting a Ford remaunfactured Clutch in it, no cigar! It took a little heated discussion, and some wheeling and dealing and I had them put a new CF clutch in, in that case it was better than the Ford part.


Well they might try to replace something with a factory rebuilt unit, but that doesn't mean it doesn't meet the quality of a new unit, not that I'd like them doing that. So it's debatable just because something is new that makes it better than a rebuilt unit. Sometimes an aftermarket part is better than an OE, but not usually unless it's a really premium or expensive brand. It also depends on how you define "better", service life, performance, noise, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I have noticed this too.
The original brake pads on our Aerostar lasted 72K.
It is now on its third set of repalcement pads at 158K.
I tried to buy OEM level pads, not the cheap stuff.
What is up with this?


This is getting WAY off the subject of thermostats, but....
1. Replacement pads usually are not the same quality of OEM.
2. Unlike the rotor on a new vehicle, a rotor with miles on it has grooves and gouges and the pad loses quite a bit of material until it is broke in.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

Raybestos makes different lines of pads and rotors some made in the USA or Canada,



You forgot one.
My mom had her car serviced at a dealership a few days ago. They told her she needed new front brake pads. She called me up and I told her to buy some aftermarket pads and she did. When I went over to change them, I saw that they were Raybestos. So far, so good.
Then I saw the "Made in China" on the package. I'll probably take them back.
 
I've always spec'd the best part for the application, others I've spoken with had similar experience with brakes. Now the last new vehicle I'm referring to is vintage 1988. Next new car for me was bought 20 years later in 2008, maybe they were using better parts 20+ years ago, but friends with cars bought in 2000 are making the same comments. I've had rear brakes go 100,000 miles in NY driving, best I've got out of replacement brakes factory new with new drums was about 55,000 miles. It could also be you've been very lucky.

BTW I wasn't challenging your experience, merely stating in 35+ years this has been my experience. Also working at 5 different dealerships listening to customers complain about the cost of a brake job, and them not getting the service life out of the replacement parts weighs into this. Friends in the business have made the same comments when talking over a few beers. YMMV
 
Well not to belabor the point, and I'm not the one who brought up non OE pads in the first place, but for 1. I've used Raybestos pads, the PG or the Advance technology and they worked the same or better and lasted as long as the OE and were equal quality in friction material and fit. 2. I usually replace the rotor (and the pad hardware too for that matter). Like I said making sure everything is good like the rotor is smooth and straight and picking a quality pad is key.

I still don't get why anyone would think an OE pad is better and not get it when they're not really that much more than a quality aftermarket.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I've always spec'd the best part for the application, others I've spoken with had similar experience with brakes. Now the last new vehicle I'm referring to is vintage 1988. Next new car for me was bought 20 years later in 2008, maybe they were using better parts 20+ years ago, but friends with cars bought in 2000 are making the same comments. I've had rear brakes go 100,000 miles in NY driving, best I've got out of replacement brakes factory new with new drums was about 55,000 miles. It could also be you've been very lucky.

BTW I wasn't challenging your experience, merely stating in 35+ years this has been my experience. Also working at 5 different dealerships listening to customers complain about the cost of a brake job, and them not getting the service life out of the replacement parts weighs into this. Friends in the business have made the same comments when talking over a few beers. YMMV


OK I was not trying to say you are wrong. I was just saying that from what I seen is if I used the better aftermarket brake parts and make sure everything is in spec there was no difference. I have also seen many cheaper aftermarket brake parts that do not last. But yeah YMMV as always
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I brought it up, another poster had the same experiences as I did, you offered your opinion. That is what this board is all about. Wish I was closer to you, I'd have you do my brakes.

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