I Always use a top synthetic 5w30 and top of the line filters when doing my oil changes. The car doesn't state that I should use a synthetic but I used it since new so figured id stay the course. I always change the oil at 3,750 severe service. The car makes 90 percent short trips and being from the ny the winters get cold. Also the wife likes to let the car warm up forever before she leaves. It is a di engine and I do smell a distinct gas odor when changing the oil. My question is there any advantage of me using say Quaker State Ultimate Durability over regular Quaker State Conventional. Synthetic will provide better protection correct. I just find it weird that people actually argue the fact of syn oils over regular oil anymore. Isnt the truth out there. Some say that if im not doing extended oci then its a waste to use synthetic. I would tend to think using a syn oil is better no matter what my oci is. yeah I know I see what you all mean by roi but im not talking about money hear. I wanna know the truth. Does synthetic oil protect my motor better then dino.
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- Thread starter waltywalt
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Depends on the operating conditions. Does the oil temps get elevated and remain elevated. Do you do a lot of 100mph driving?do you tow. How cold is your typical winter start.
Today's conventionals are great,and if you aren't extending the interval or really pushing the engine(and therefore oil),or of course extreme cold(-40).
If you're just driving like a regular human being without really taxing the engine then at the interval you mentioned you gain nothing by using a synthetic.
I suggest stay with the synthetic but extend the interval,then you still get the more capable product and you're actually using it to its full potential.
Today's conventionals are great,and if you aren't extending the interval or really pushing the engine(and therefore oil),or of course extreme cold(-40).
If you're just driving like a regular human being without really taxing the engine then at the interval you mentioned you gain nothing by using a synthetic.
I suggest stay with the synthetic but extend the interval,then you still get the more capable product and you're actually using it to its full potential.
Tell her to stop letting the car warm up. Pollutes horribly, dilutes the oil, and accelerates wear. Start it up, wait a few seconds, then drive off slowly.
Give your chosen OCI and the use the car gets, I don't think that a syn would offer any advantages.
For the kind of use you write that this car is put to, I'd say that your short drain intervals are of more importance than whether you use a Grp II or a Grp III.
I might use a syn just for the warm and fuzzies, but the rational side of my brain doubts that there'd be any advantage.
For the kind of use you write that this car is put to, I'd say that your short drain intervals are of more importance than whether you use a Grp II or a Grp III.
I might use a syn just for the warm and fuzzies, but the rational side of my brain doubts that there'd be any advantage.
Cold starts, idling, severe service, same as me and I use nothing but syn.
I know that synthetic tends to flow better when its cold, that it resists shearing better than conventional, that it protects better under high heat conditions, and that in general it usually has a lower NOACK and a higher film strength. So I would say, yes, it does offer better protection. The question is...do you want to spend an upwards of $10 extra every 3+ months to have the better oil in your sump? I personally answer yes to that question. Others will disagree, I just like the added safety margin when using synthetic, and I truly believe it offers better protection.
Like I said I just wanted to get some kinda idea if using synthetic is better then using dino. I don't care if it cost more. Not that I wouldn't mind saving a few bucks a year but I just wanna use an oil that gives me the most protection available. I use Castrol syntec, I use Pp and pu. Ive used Valvoline syn also. But mostly Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Usually I buy whatever oil and filter sale at advanced or autozone. Im not against using dino and I would use it if I knew for sure that its just as good as the syn.
I don't believe that an easily driven vehicle that never exceeds oil temps above 220-230f will wear any differently at your intervals specified whether using a syn or conventional.
In fact the used oil analysis I've seen using conventional actually showed less wear metals per mile over a 5000 mile interval than synthetics at 7500 mile intervals.
So as far as protection is concerned conventionals protect as well or better when operated in conservative manner.
Synthetics shine when the oil gets really hot,or really cold,and of course extended intervals.
In fact the used oil analysis I've seen using conventional actually showed less wear metals per mile over a 5000 mile interval than synthetics at 7500 mile intervals.
So as far as protection is concerned conventionals protect as well or better when operated in conservative manner.
Synthetics shine when the oil gets really hot,or really cold,and of course extended intervals.
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
Like I said I just wanted to get some kinda idea if using synthetic is better then using dino. I don't care if it cost more. Not that I wouldn't mind saving a few bucks a year but I just wanna use an oil that gives me the most protection available. I use Castrol syntec, I use Pp and pu. Ive used Valvoline syn also. But mostly Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Usually I buy whatever oil and filter sale at advanced or autozone. Im not against using dino and I would use it if I knew for sure that its just as good as the syn.
There is no simple yes or no answer. The truth is that the gap between off-the-shelf conventional and synthetic oils has narrowed for your typical road car. The newest API SN requirements are quite strict, so a modern conventional oil will be pretty stout IMO.
The only way to know for sure is to pick an oil, run it for a while, and pay for the analysis to see how it works in your particular engine and for your driving style.
Like I said I just wanted to get some kinda idea if using synthetic is better then using dino. I don't care if it cost more. Not that I wouldn't mind saving a few bucks a year but I just wanna use an oil that gives me the most protection available. I use Castrol syntec, I use Pp and pu. Ive used Valvoline syn also. But mostly Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Usually I buy whatever oil and filter sale at advanced or autozone. Im not against using dino and I would use it if I knew for sure that its just as good as the syn.
There is no simple yes or no answer. The truth is that the gap between off-the-shelf conventional and synthetic oils has narrowed for your typical road car. The newest API SN requirements are quite strict, so a modern conventional oil will be pretty stout IMO.
The only way to know for sure is to pick an oil, run it for a while, and pay for the analysis to see how it works in your particular engine and for your driving style.
So all of you guys agree that dino protects and keeps my engine just as clean as synthetic. Maybe I should use dino and save a few bucks. I never used to use synthetic in any of my other vehicals but since I bought the car new I wanted to protect my car as good as I could. Since the car is a di engine I liked the low noack number syn oils gave me. Is there a conventional oils with a low noack number in the 5w30 I use.
I would stick to synthetic no matter what. Not to say that conventional oil isn't as good or anything, but I feel better knowing that ive got something better in there.
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
I Always use a top synthetic 5w30 and top of the line filters when doing my oil changes. The car doesn't state that I should use a synthetic but I used it since new so figured id stay the course. I always change the oil at 3,750 severe service. The car makes 90 percent short trips and being from the ny the winters get cold. Also the wife likes to let the car warm up forever before she leaves. It is a di engine and I do smell a distinct gas odor when changing the oil. My question is there any advantage of me using say Quaker State Ultimate Durability over regular Quaker State Conventional. Synthetic will provide better protection correct. I just find it weird that people actually argue the fact of syn oils over regular oil anymore. Isnt the truth out there. Some say that if im not doing extended oci then its a waste to use synthetic. I would tend to think using a syn oil is better no matter what my oci is. yeah I know I see what you all mean by roi but im not talking about money hear. I wanna know the truth. Does synthetic oil protect my motor better then dino.
The part that gets me is the DI and the smell of raw fuel when you change the oil, the synth. will give you better protection when the oil is stressed, and I personally will consider an oil diluted with gas "stressed", without the gas thing sure 3.75K is for conventional, the on sale kind, but this is not the case, Is it?. IMHO.
I Always use a top synthetic 5w30 and top of the line filters when doing my oil changes. The car doesn't state that I should use a synthetic but I used it since new so figured id stay the course. I always change the oil at 3,750 severe service. The car makes 90 percent short trips and being from the ny the winters get cold. Also the wife likes to let the car warm up forever before she leaves. It is a di engine and I do smell a distinct gas odor when changing the oil. My question is there any advantage of me using say Quaker State Ultimate Durability over regular Quaker State Conventional. Synthetic will provide better protection correct. I just find it weird that people actually argue the fact of syn oils over regular oil anymore. Isnt the truth out there. Some say that if im not doing extended oci then its a waste to use synthetic. I would tend to think using a syn oil is better no matter what my oci is. yeah I know I see what you all mean by roi but im not talking about money hear. I wanna know the truth. Does synthetic oil protect my motor better then dino.
The part that gets me is the DI and the smell of raw fuel when you change the oil, the synth. will give you better protection when the oil is stressed, and I personally will consider an oil diluted with gas "stressed", without the gas thing sure 3.75K is for conventional, the on sale kind, but this is not the case, Is it?. IMHO.
Fuel diluted PCMO is fuel diluted PCMO. Go ahead use synthetic if the warm buzzy feeling using synthetics use them.
Originally Posted By: waltywalt
So all of you guys agree that dino protects and keeps my engine just as clean as synthetic. Maybe I should use dino and save a few bucks.
The synthetic might hold up for a longer OCI. But, if you're doing early changes, you might as well save the cash. As for fuel dilution, I don't like it, having been spoiled by LPG taxis and then saddled with an F-150 with a feedback carb and horrible fuel dilution. But, it's not a new issue and certain things do mitigate it, such as having a proper carb in my case or getting the oil up to temperatures. The other, important way of mitigating fuel dilution would be frequent oil changes, and one doesn't want to be wasting money on a high end synthetic if doing that.
So all of you guys agree that dino protects and keeps my engine just as clean as synthetic. Maybe I should use dino and save a few bucks.
The synthetic might hold up for a longer OCI. But, if you're doing early changes, you might as well save the cash. As for fuel dilution, I don't like it, having been spoiled by LPG taxis and then saddled with an F-150 with a feedback carb and horrible fuel dilution. But, it's not a new issue and certain things do mitigate it, such as having a proper carb in my case or getting the oil up to temperatures. The other, important way of mitigating fuel dilution would be frequent oil changes, and one doesn't want to be wasting money on a high end synthetic if doing that.
Conventional oils are more than adequate for a even the GDI Hyundai motors if the severe service schedule is being followed. I would recommend a full synthetic for the turbocharged GDIs.
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My understanding is that for the great majority of daily drivers, conventional 10w30 for the better part of the year, 20w20 conventional (monograde 20) for late autumn, winter, spring. To me, this is the ideal after having read BITOG, and also in part based on my experiences.
Monogrades are really preferable (if the climate is moderate) especially because they strongly resist fuel dilution, but on the other hand it is definitely not advisable to use 30 and 40 grades in variable valve timing type engines, such as yours.
5W30 sheared too rapidly 20 years ago, but in whatever kind of motor oil, 5W30 grade in general is better than ever, many improvements. Nevertheless, 5W30 continues to shear earlier during OCI than 10W30; speaking anecdotally through BITOG browsings, the only 5W30 I personally find trustworthy are old Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 rated at A1/B1 and A5/B5 (the one without the Dexos1 label) and old Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 (this one may be a real synthetic as it contains GTL and may also contain PAO and/or esters) and dino Mobil Super 5000, and maybe the old discontinued Mobil Clean 5000 and 7500 SM GF-4. I could also name Kendall and Chevron Supreme oils, but that's practically speaking not over the counter in much of the U.S., so I exclude those from the 5W30 Pantheon; actually Chevron is more over the counter than Kendall, but because of the watered down Havoline SN (which I shun), let me also exclude Chevron which btw is more or less the same as Pennzoil conventional, but it seems (this is a totally subjective statement) to me that Chevron Supreme is somewhat better and longer lasting than Pennzoil conventional. Btw, I actually like Quaker State Advanced Durability dino more than Pennzoil conventional, my opinion. Mobil 1 5W30 bottles in the USA used to carry the label of "New Vehicle Formula", for example, 10 years ago, and continue to do so when being sold in New Zealand and Australia, to this day.
A DI engine being subject to constant fuel dilution, and for other reasons such as intake valve deposits of oil oxidation, once properly broken in, either 100% 10W30 or a blend of 5W30 and 10W30 (for winter operation, because it is not really feasible to buy monograde 20 oils) dino, speaking of such widely available conventionals as the low-to-mid SAPS Valvoline conventional, Mobil Super 5000, Quaker State Advanced Durability ( Quaker State Conventional), Motorcraft Syn Blend.
Through BITOG one learns that frequent oil changes in one sense is not good, because it is at the early part of OCI that the most wear occur because of fresh detergents competing for metal surfaces with fresh ZDDP molecules. But if you are doing a very moderate around 4K OCI, this fear (based on scientific reality) is a bit exaggerated. If you run especially either Valvoline conventional or Mobil Super 5000, because their starting TBN are rather low (no problem, they also contain the very beneficial and low cost sodium additive), especially Valvoline conventional being pretty low in TBN, detergent molecules competing with ZDDP molecules is minimized. You could use Valvoline 5w30 conventional year round in your application between 3.5K to 4.5K, and your engine will run very well with lower wear numbers, changing the oil filter every other OCI (because the motor has already been broken in), so run it 7K to 8K per oil filter.
You utilized from the beginning Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability synthetics, is that right?
If so, it turns out you did no harm or very little if any, by doing so, because those two are not really synthetic oil but more like super charged conventionals. Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability are neither synthetic nor dino, because performance wise they overlap both categories. Chemically, they are dino. For all practical purposes, Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability and WPP produced synthetics are pseudo synthetics (Group III). Which is to say, that kind of motor oil is the closest thing to one size fits all approach. Nevertheless, because such oils have moderately high starting TBN, for DI applications Valvoline conventional and Mobil Super 5000 are closer to the ideal.
Monogrades are really preferable (if the climate is moderate) especially because they strongly resist fuel dilution, but on the other hand it is definitely not advisable to use 30 and 40 grades in variable valve timing type engines, such as yours.
5W30 sheared too rapidly 20 years ago, but in whatever kind of motor oil, 5W30 grade in general is better than ever, many improvements. Nevertheless, 5W30 continues to shear earlier during OCI than 10W30; speaking anecdotally through BITOG browsings, the only 5W30 I personally find trustworthy are old Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 rated at A1/B1 and A5/B5 (the one without the Dexos1 label) and old Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 (this one may be a real synthetic as it contains GTL and may also contain PAO and/or esters) and dino Mobil Super 5000, and maybe the old discontinued Mobil Clean 5000 and 7500 SM GF-4. I could also name Kendall and Chevron Supreme oils, but that's practically speaking not over the counter in much of the U.S., so I exclude those from the 5W30 Pantheon; actually Chevron is more over the counter than Kendall, but because of the watered down Havoline SN (which I shun), let me also exclude Chevron which btw is more or less the same as Pennzoil conventional, but it seems (this is a totally subjective statement) to me that Chevron Supreme is somewhat better and longer lasting than Pennzoil conventional. Btw, I actually like Quaker State Advanced Durability dino more than Pennzoil conventional, my opinion. Mobil 1 5W30 bottles in the USA used to carry the label of "New Vehicle Formula", for example, 10 years ago, and continue to do so when being sold in New Zealand and Australia, to this day.
A DI engine being subject to constant fuel dilution, and for other reasons such as intake valve deposits of oil oxidation, once properly broken in, either 100% 10W30 or a blend of 5W30 and 10W30 (for winter operation, because it is not really feasible to buy monograde 20 oils) dino, speaking of such widely available conventionals as the low-to-mid SAPS Valvoline conventional, Mobil Super 5000, Quaker State Advanced Durability ( Quaker State Conventional), Motorcraft Syn Blend.
Through BITOG one learns that frequent oil changes in one sense is not good, because it is at the early part of OCI that the most wear occur because of fresh detergents competing for metal surfaces with fresh ZDDP molecules. But if you are doing a very moderate around 4K OCI, this fear (based on scientific reality) is a bit exaggerated. If you run especially either Valvoline conventional or Mobil Super 5000, because their starting TBN are rather low (no problem, they also contain the very beneficial and low cost sodium additive), especially Valvoline conventional being pretty low in TBN, detergent molecules competing with ZDDP molecules is minimized. You could use Valvoline 5w30 conventional year round in your application between 3.5K to 4.5K, and your engine will run very well with lower wear numbers, changing the oil filter every other OCI (because the motor has already been broken in), so run it 7K to 8K per oil filter.
You utilized from the beginning Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability synthetics, is that right?
If so, it turns out you did no harm or very little if any, by doing so, because those two are not really synthetic oil but more like super charged conventionals. Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability are neither synthetic nor dino, because performance wise they overlap both categories. Chemically, they are dino. For all practical purposes, Pennzoil Platinum and Quaker State Ultimate Durability and WPP produced synthetics are pseudo synthetics (Group III). Which is to say, that kind of motor oil is the closest thing to one size fits all approach. Nevertheless, because such oils have moderately high starting TBN, for DI applications Valvoline conventional and Mobil Super 5000 are closer to the ideal.
For a DI engine where the oil has a gassy smell when you change it, I would still recommend a synthetic with single-digit NOACK. It's important to avoid intake valve carboning over time. But then you should stick to the severe service OCI. There's not much you can do about viscosity loss due to fuel dilution, whether the oil is conventional or synthetic. Yes, using synthetics on short intervals is more expensive, but the extra protection is worth it. If you start up a program of used oil analysis and gradually increase the change intervals based on the sample results, you may be able to get to a longer safe OCI and save some money.
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