The sad truth

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Well, until I bought my first Chrysler products, I never had a problem with reliability with Domestic brand vehicles.

I also remember the late 70's when I first started driving, the hot ticket for the farmers' daughters (they always bought a house in the city and a new car for the girls going to University) was the Honda Civic.

Good cheap, reliable cars, but I am always amazed when no-one seems to remember how easily they rusted and became useless, because Unibody, with perfectly good drivetrains while being hauled to the wreckers to be crushed. They didn't last 10 years on the road.

I also remember my High School buddy's dad, a Doctor, who bought a new Toyota Corolla around the same time. He ended up with it five years later, but had to use Pizza Boxes to cover the hole in the drivers side floor. Yeah, but the engine still ran. That's not my idea of a "reliable car" though.

Speaking of Carbs, I rebuilt the Rochester 2BBL on my 283-equipped 67 Chevy sedan, which I drove all through College. Armed with the HP Books Rochester Carbs book and a $20 rebuild kit, three hours on the kitchen table, and after that the car would accelerate like mad, cruise easily (I liked to drive 90 mph on the highway in those days) and I got an easy 27 mpg highway with it if I kept it at 70. I used to love how, with the Powerglide, if you came up behind a vehicle on the highway that you wanted to pass, you would briefly hit the brake so you slowed to 45, then punched it. It would kick down into first gear, stay there until 70 (the 283 had a 6,000 RPM redline), and what a kick in the back when she shifted to high gear. You were doing 90 before you knew it. Never got tired of that.

270,000 miles when I sold it, still ran like a top.

I've owned lots of domestic trucks over the years, all were very reliable and very cheap to operate. People would tell me about how bad my gas mileage was, but I usually got 25 mpg on the highway with a 350/Turbo 400, and rarely bought anything except tires. A new battery every 7 years, a new alternator (for $60) every five years, a new fuel pump (for $13) every 100,000 miles, and that was that. Nothing else ever broke on the Chevy or GMC trucks I've owned, and I always bought them with 150,000 miles on the clock before I turned another 100,000 over.

The difference between 15 mpg (my truck) and 30 mpg is about $700 a year. One or two month's payment on some new Japanese car. Meanwhile I never paid more than $2200, and some of them $800, for a used pickup that never cost me more than $1500 in gas and a few hundred dollars a year in parts and consumables. Even insurance never was between $250 (for my first Chevy, a '74 ¾ ton) and $700 (for my last GMC, a '77, sold this summer) a year. I would run them for five to eight years, put on 100K in the process, then buy another 73~80. They all ran when I sold them as well.

Have to agree as well about trucks; the Japanese so far haven't impressed me with a heavy ½ or ¾ ton truck yet. Maybe in the next ten years. Nissan looks interesting but their reliability record, backed up by a friend who worked as a salesman at a Nissan dealer, scares me.
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
My philosophy is: I don't care what you drive; it's none of my business- so don't give me any flak about what I drive...

[off-topic]
MCompact,
can you tell a bit more about your experience and add-ons with you former Mazda3?
did the hatchback proved useful to you/house projects?
also at the time, did you consider the mazda6 wagon?
how did it handle in winter? height/clearance?
Thank you
[/off-topic]
 
Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: MCompact
My philosophy is: I don't care what you drive; it's none of my business- so don't give me any flak about what I drive...

[off-topic]
MCompact,
can you tell a bit more about your experience and add-ons with you former Mazda3?
did the hatchback proved useful to you/house projects?
also at the time, did you consider the mazda6 wagon?
how did it handle in winter? height/clearance?
Thank you
[/off-topic]


My 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 had a few warranty repairs(turbo, front strut, variable valve timing actuator) while under warranty. After that it was pretty much problem free up until the time I traded it(at 158k miles).
Mods consisted of the Mazdaspeed cold air intake, Hypertech ECU tune, Koni FSD struts/shocks, and a James Barone Racing rear anti-roll bar(set 50% stiffer than OEM. The car was a monster, yet it still was a comfortable cruiser that averaged a bit over 27 mpg. I put off trading it in hopes that the rumored 300 bhp AWD Mazdaspeed would be introduced- but no such luck.
I would certainly consider another Mazda in the future. They are great cars.
 
Those were actually good cars. More like a high speed armored personnel carrier than a car, per se.My wife had one in Steve McGarrett brown.

Nobody messed with her in those days.
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Can't speak to the 70s as I wasn't alive but I've worked on enough imported junk to know that every auto maker can build quality or trash...I don't buy into Japanese superiority...or American superiority...sure they've made some gems...also some dogs. Speaking of which look at the junk coming out of Germany these days...just goes to show



Best and most true comment here. I agree.
 
Yes my family in the late70's early 80's abandoned domestics for Hondas

All Accords, what pieces of junk they were. we had a Accord 1.8 CVCC 5 spd.

you took what ever color came in, dealer did next to no prep, brand new off the boat the dash
padding was seperating around the cluster area and dealer refused to fix, so father lived with it.

The rotors were too thin and the front wheel bearings has to be busted to remove the rotors which warped every 15K miles, cost about 300$ to repair, this was early 80s so that was some serious coin.

The fenders rotted in 18 months at the a-pillar, just poor quality metal and paint. The CVCC engines blew head gaskets and ate camshafts, went thru that non-sense. The rings were toast in 60K and the engine drank oil, note oil was changed every 3k miles. Father got rid of it in 82 for a small Plymouth Turismo. I bought the plymouth from him in 85 when I got out of college and put 175K miles on it couldnt kill that 2.2, was a much superior car to any Honda.

Every Honda purchased from that time period, about 6 in the family had the same exact pattern failures and everyone unloaded the things and moved on. Needless to say my Uncle who pontifed and convinced everyone to buy them was on the $hit list as far as cars went LOL
 
You'd have to go back in a time machine to fix the problem. Most of what happened in the 80s and 90s with American cars was a matter of self-inflicted wounds.

I remember GM insisted on all sorts of nonsense, just so that they could keep doing what they were doing. There were managers who, apparently, were responsible for the "appearance of quality." As one automotive magazine pointed out, they would have been much better off just sticking with quality.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Why burden the common buying man/family, that struggles already as is? Level the playing field with appropriate taxation of goods that are produced by slave or near slave labor and people will naturally gravitate towards domestic offerings as well as companies will bring back the production.
Do you think European/Italian/Japanese consumers would behave the same if their markets were not protected by their governments?


Like taxing cars produced in the "right to work" states? That would help balance out the money the Fed gives to those states. My Frontier was assembled in Mississippi. http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/c...ton-mississippi
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
That would be one of my favorites, the 73 Super Duty 455 Trans Am.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/pont...appeared-page-2


A modern Mustang with a 2.3l turbo only gives up 0.15 seconds in the 1/4 mile to that beast...
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-mustang-23l-ecoboost-manual-test-review


Lots of variables to consider: Track condition, atmospheric conditions, driver ability, etc. But perhaps the biggest factor 43 years later: Tires.
 
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
That would be one of my favorites, the 73 Super Duty 455 Trans Am.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/pont...appeared-page-2


A modern Mustang with a 2.3l turbo only gives up 0.15 seconds in the 1/4 mile to that beast...
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-mustang-23l-ecoboost-manual-test-review


Lots of variables to consider: Track condition, atmospheric conditions, driver ability, etc. But perhaps the biggest factor 43 years later: Tires.


I believe it was Hot Rod television that did a historic muscle car shootout and ultimately, given that all of these cars had power measured in SAE gross, it meant that they were nowhere near as powerful as many remember them being. The car that won the shootout was a late production BOSS 429 Mustang BTW, which ran a mid-13 second quarter mile. They had an LS6 Chevelle that they thought would be a runner... It wasn't. They also had a HEMI Charger I think, that the clutch was an issue with. It performed somewhat similarly to the BOSS 429 IIRC, but never cut the same ET because of the clutch.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
That would be one of my favorites, the 73 Super Duty 455 Trans Am.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/pont...appeared-page-2


A modern Mustang with a 2.3l turbo only gives up 0.15 seconds in the 1/4 mile to that beast...
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-mustang-23l-ecoboost-manual-test-review


Lots of variables to consider: Track condition, atmospheric conditions, driver ability, etc. But perhaps the biggest factor 43 years later: Tires.


I believe it was Hot Rod television that did a historic muscle car shootout and ultimately, given that all of these cars had power measured in SAE gross, it meant that they were nowhere near as powerful as many remember them being. The car that won the shootout was a late production BOSS 429 Mustang BTW, which ran a mid-13 second quarter mile. They had an LS6 Chevelle that they thought would be a runner... It wasn't. They also had a HEMI Charger I think, that the clutch was an issue with. It performed somewhat similarly to the BOSS 429 IIRC, but never cut the same ET because of the clutch.


I know. I've been involved in Drag Racing and working on cars since my pre-teen years. I just didn't want to type out an essay on my phone.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 02SE


I know. I've been involved in Drag Racing and working on cars since my pre-teen years. I just didn't want to type out an essay on my phone.
wink.gif



LOL! No problem
grin.gif
I found that episode pretty amusing, did you see it? They interviewed all kinds of older folks about which car they thought would be the fastest and on the expectations versus reality, it was a quite comical to see the marked difference.

Back when I was into it (drag racing), I recall a bone stock old school HEMI Challenger in that grabber green/black colour combo get trailered in to the track we frequented. You should have heard all the old folks fawning over it and almost unable to contain themselves to see that old girl run. I think it ran high 13's or low 14's? Been quite a few years now. Anyways, it was quite an eye opener for even a few of the guys in my circle, myself included, who expected it to run harder than it did. As it stood, it ran about the same as a stock 225HP 87-93 5.0L Mustang.

We saw that kind of stuff a few times, as I am sure you have as well. Kids showing up with their "super fast" Civic's and turning 18-20 second ET's. Stock smog era T/A's and the like running 16's. One of my favourites was a J-body guy rolling on like 20" rims with a huge flatulence cannon on the back of it and a mechano wing. He pulled out some stock steelies with winter tires on them and then popped the hood and his posse was all rallying about him as he states "check out my cold air". They are sneering at us and cutting us looks for whatever reason, I assume it was since we were not a part of the FWD drag racing movement. Anyways, he gets lined up against a buddy of mine with an H/C/I notch with a Vortec on it, car ran mid 11's like clockwork in the low 120Mph range. He was on a set of ET Streets, which hooked up decently enough if you got some heat into them as I'm sure you know. So Sunfire guy tries to do a burnout and he gets a few chirps out of his snow tires as my buddy lays into a full burn-out and you see him looking over with a sheepish stare and his buddies are all on the bleachers about 10ft from us and they are like "uhhhh I don't think he's gonna take that Mustang". Ya think? He ran a 19.9 against an 11.7. My buddy was down the return road before he had even finished his run. He managed to shake that one off, but when he got lined up against another friend of ours with his bracket racing car, which was a Hyundai Pony that ran 19.8's all day long and lost to that, he packed up and went home. It was rather hilarious
lol.gif
 
grin.gif


Lots of great stories from Drag Racing. Most of which I won't mention without consent from the more well-known characters.

Your stories remind me of the Highschool Drags back in the day. Good times.
 
Might as well have been, LOL! I didn't have a car in high school until the last year or so, and it was a hand-me-down from my parents. I had a motorcycle however, and had that through the first year of University until my dad sold it on me while I was away at school. When I finished school and moved back to Ontario, that's when I got into the local scene and met a great group of folks who were all into it and so that's how it went. Time went on, most of us ended up with children, priorities changed, and well, I'm no longer into it and most of them aren't either. Still great fun to watch however. I figure I may get back into it a bit once my kids are a bit older and get some of that interest themselves.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
That would be one of my favorites, the 73 Super Duty 455 Trans Am.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/pont...appeared-page-2


A modern Mustang with a 2.3l turbo only gives up 0.15 seconds in the 1/4 mile to that beast...
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-mustang-23l-ecoboost-manual-test-review


Lots of variables to consider: Track condition, atmospheric conditions, driver ability, etc. But perhaps the biggest factor 43 years later: Tires.


I believe it was Hot Rod television that did a historic muscle car shootout and ultimately, given that all of these cars had power measured in SAE gross, it meant that they were nowhere near as powerful as many remember them being. The car that won the shootout was a late production BOSS 429 Mustang BTW, which ran a mid-13 second quarter mile. They had an LS6 Chevelle that they thought would be a runner... It wasn't. They also had a HEMI Charger I think, that the clutch was an issue with. It performed somewhat similarly to the BOSS 429 IIRC, but never cut the same ET because of the clutch.


Actual dyno tests of LS6 engines have shown that the 450HP rating was ridiculously low...I'm not sure I saw ANY of them not top 500HP. I suspect the 427s and 396/375 rating was equally bogus. I saw a concours-restored 4-speed Hemi Coronet-100% stock down to the carb jetting-on a chassis dyno, it put down 425HP...at the wheels!

Julie Pennington's L-88 1969 Stingray runs mid-11's on F70-15 bias-ply tires. The car is stock (aside from an Auto Meter tach), and proven so by a teardown! It may have a locker rather than the GM Positraction, but I don't think so.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Can't speak to the 70s as I wasn't alive but I've worked on enough imported junk to know that every auto maker can build quality or trash...I don't buy into Japanese superiority...or American superiority...sure they've made some gems...also some dogs. Speaking of which look at the junk coming out of Germany these days...just goes to show



Best and most true comment here. I agree.


X2. Very true.

I spend a lot of my day buying parts for used vehicles...everything from current year auction stuff, to rotted out trucks the owner of the dealer finds online from some [censored] hole with a lot of salt.

All automakers build junk. And just about all build some good stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Actual dyno tests of LS6 engines have shown that the 450HP rating was ridiculously low...I'm not sure I saw ANY of them not top 500HP. I suspect the 427s and 396/375 rating was equally bogus. I saw a concours-restored 4-speed Hemi Coronet-100% stock down to the carb jetting-on a chassis dyno, it put down 425HP...at the wheels!

Julie Pennington's L-88 1969 Stingray runs mid-11's on F70-15 bias-ply tires. The car is stock (aside from an Auto Meter tach), and proven so by a teardown! It may have a locker rather than the GM Positraction, but I don't think so.


SAE GROSS or NET? I've seen some beauty dyno numbers too that never translated to times at the track because the dyno numbers were SAE GROSS.

My 392 makes 470HP SAE NET, corrected and would run mid to low 12's how it sits. SAE GROSS, it would be a 600HP mill if we use the 30% figure for conversion, which is a pretty loose number, but generally gives one a ballpark.

Actually looking up Julie Pennington, it seems this is pretty well supported:

Super Chevy Article on the L88 cars

which states:

Quote:
For years, Car and Driver's Nov. '65 road test of a 427 Cobra-12.20 at 118 mph-stood as the fastest quarter-mile time of any production car.


Which, is in a car that is half the weight of my Charger. My E39 M5 was 400HP (SAE NET) and would run low to mid 12's at ~118Mph as well. Which again, supports this position based on the above quote.

Julie's car, with her in it, is 3,400lbs and hitting ~120Mph in the 1/4, so she's probably around 400HP to the tires or so I'd guess. So maybe 460 flywheel?

Also, as per the F.A.S.T. regs for Factory Stock, they are allowed
- up to a 0.070" overbore
- 1.5 point compression bump
- Whatever rear axle ratio they want (doesn't say anything about POSI)
- Roller-tip rockers (factory ratio)
- Exhaust upgraded to 2.5"
- Points can be replaced with electronic ignition
- Ignition boxes are allowed (MSD, Crane...etc)

So this is not "how it rolled out of the factory" stock. Seems the biggest limiting item would be traction with the tire mandate. But she seems to have that one figured out pretty good, based on her ET's.
 
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